UIRT

[Ruud]

Hi all,

I am still wondering why no one has created a ps2 mouse interface UIRT. Since it has many advantages over using the com port..

Advantages:
1) No more power problems, the ps2 port can eassily source 300mA at 5V. i.e. more power to the IR leds, much, much less trouble with different types of PC's...

2) Very easy to power-up the PC on a programmable remotecontrol key, since nowadays motherboards are designed to boot on PS2 mouse activity.

3) Longer cables possible due to the synchroneous protocol of the keyboard/mouse.

4) Probably even less components, easier to build. (no level shift needed).

Disadvantages:

1) More difficult to write PC software (probably we will need one VxD for proper communication)

2) Using the PIC16x84 we won't be able to make the thing in-circuit programmable. But most of the more recent PIC or AVR controlers allow the firmware itself to change the flash memory, so given the proper firmware design and the proper chip, this can be solved.

3) No control over the uC reset line (so we really need well designed firmware)

Let me know what you all think,

[jediperry]

Good point, but you missed one small disadvantage, I know for a fact that my mouse doesn't work through a ps2-serial converter. :smile:

Mike

[Ruud]

Erh, who is talking about any serial converter?? I was talking about having the controller act as kind of a (fake) keyboard, no conversions, just attach the device to the mouse PS2 input on the PC and it must work...

Did some preliminary schematic and I think if I would use e.g. the PIC16F87 the part-count would be 1 resistors, 1 cap, the receiver module and IR leds... (oh, erh and the PIC of course)

Regards
Ruud

[jediperry]

Just ignore me, i just ment you wouldn't be able to plug a ps2 mouse in at the same time.

[Ruud]

Hehehe, sorry, but that's where the converters come in.... I mean there are lots of splitters which create 2 or more extra PS2 inputs on one USB port.

I also had a look at the USB by the way, but we want to keep it nice and simple (and cheap).

OK, I did some testing this evening on a breadboard (is that what it is called), and the communication with the ps2 port works fine, so does the (soft) power-on.. (tested with a 16f84. I really think it could work..

regards
Ruud

[GoldServe]

Whoa....koolio...share share..a majority of the people are using usb mice now....so my ps2 port is dying for some usage =}

[Robin]

Sounds like a good idea, however ...

My UIRT receives ANY IR transmission and forwards it to Girder ... this would mean that ANY IR transmission would potentially wake the PC, not just ONE specific IR code.

As my own HTPC is in my living room, with an IR TV, IR VCR, IR Satellite box, IR amplifier ... all of them would turn the PC on if I used them !

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from using the serial port AND the PS2 port ... serial for IR codes and PS2 for 5vsb and wake-up (although you'd need some sort of code generator to adapt Jon's current schematic to wake a PS2 port) ... at least that way you don't have to open the box.

Personally, I quite like the way my UIRT can turn my HTPC on & off using just the one button hard-wired across the power switch.

[Ruud]

On 2002-03-06 14:59, Robin wrote:
Sounds like a good idea, however ...

My UIRT receives ANY IR transmission and forwards it to Girder ... this would mean that ANY IR transmission would potentially wake the PC, not just ONE specific IR code.

As my own HTPC is in my living room, with an IR TV, IR VCR, IR Satellite box, IR amplifier ... all of them would turn the PC on if I used them !

Of course, there's nothing stopping you from using the serial port AND the PS2 port ... serial for IR codes and PS2 for 5vsb and wake-up (although you'd need some sort of code generator to adapt Jon's current schematic to wake a PS2 port) ... at least that way you don't have to open the box.

Personally, I quite like the way my UIRT can turn my HTPC on & off using just the one button hard-wired across the power switch.


OK, I was thinking more like one little proggy which tell's the UIRT which code to respond to if Girder (or an other application is not active) this could easily be stored in the controllers EEPROM. This way the controller would only respond to ONE ir key to power-up the PC

Regards
Ruud

PS: Why am I suddenly a determined user of Girder instead of a newbie?? I don't use Girder, I am only interested in finding fun projects

[Ron]

On 2002-03-06 16:22, Ruud wrote:

PS: Why am I suddenly a determined user of Girder instead of a newbie?? I don't use Girder, I am only interested in finding fun projects



The Forum does that automatically, after a number of posts. Nothing to worry about.

[Robin]

Ruud,

If I understand you correctly, this UIRT is dependent on Girder sending a message to say that it is alive, and therefore enabling all IR code forwarding.

But when Girder shuts down, then this UIRT will only forward a signal when it receives a specific code.

It will need to be programmed into the PIC though, as the PC's BIOS is responsible for responding to data on the mouse port ... software solutions wouldn't get around the issue.

Sounds clever and if you work out how to do it then I'd be most interested !

[Ruud]

On 2002-03-08 18:01, Robin wrote:
Ruud,

If I understand you correctly, this UIRT is dependent on Girder sending a message to say that it is alive, and therefore enabling all IR code forwarding.

But when Girder shuts down, then this UIRT will only forward a signal when it receives a specific code.

It will need to be programmed into the PIC though, as the PC's BIOS is responsible for responding to data on the mouse port ... software solutions wouldn't get around the issue.

Sounds clever and if you work out how to do it then I'd be most interested !


Hi Robin,

Actually I am experimenting now with a SMALL Vxd which enables this UIRT for normal receiving when the VxD is loaded and goes into "bootmode" when the VxD is unloaded... DOESN't work if I ended with a crash ...

[frdfsnlght]

Geesh, I feel like such a nag, but I can't get an answer on this question. I've tried contacting Jon directly, but I can't get a response and I don't want to p*ss him off by spamming him.

Where can I get the PIC _source_ for the UIRT? I'm going to start building one of these using a different PIC part and adding a bunch of features, and I'd rather not start from scratch on the IR code. If I ever get the project working, I'll happily share the fruits of my labor with this group.

Thanks for any help.

-Tab

[Robin]

frdfsnlght (?)... as Jon Rhees redesigned both the plugin and the firmware the only place you're going to get the UIRT source would be from him.

Alternatively you could disassemble the hex, but there wouldn't be any nice, easy to understand commentary.

I've mailed Jon before and he's been exceptionally helpful, so I can only conclude that maybe he doesn't want to just give away all his (absolutely fantastic) hard work.

IC-Prog (www.ic-prog.com) has an internal disassembler, should you wish to try and reverse engineer.

Good luck !

[frdfsnlght]

Robin,

Thanks for the reply. The username is a little odd, but it has meaning to me.

I expected Jon as the primary source for the code I'm looking for. Like I said, I've tried to contact him via private message and direct email, but I've never heard back. I understand his desire (and right) to not share the code, but I would have liked to receive some confirmation either way.

I've considered the disassembly route and, barring any other solution, will probably have to take it. I was hoping for the commentary though.

Thanks for the link to IC-Prog. I haven't actually searched for a disassembler yet, but expected the Internet would provide, as it does so often. You've provided me a starting point.

Thanks for the help. Like I said, if I can get my project off the ground, I'll happilly share my results with this group. I'm basically planning on using a faster, bigger PIC to handle IR Rx, Tx on multiple channels (sort of like an IR blaster), LCD/VFD output, and a bunch of GPIO, all always powered and able to wake a sleepy computer. I'll probably go for a RS232 connection, but I'm also looking at USB.

-Tab

[oe1k]

UIRT 2.0 layout/PCB request:

Well, I'm getting a new batch of UIRT kits together. Anyone (ie, Jon Rhees, Mark F, Ruud, etc.) want to help provide a PCB image I can go etch a batch of? I could use the old Ruud UIRT 1.0 PCB like I did for the first batch (see http://www.ida.net/users/oe1k/uirt/uirt.htm ), but I think we have progressed since then.

Anyone willing to give a semi-authoritative suggestion on parts, schematic, PCB, etc?

-Richard


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: oe1k on 2002-03-16 06:37 ]</font>

[Danijel_Pticar]

Greetings all.

I got some free time today so
my new firmware 1.22(sony fix) is on my www.

Now sony remotes learning should work.
(only put repeat to 3 or more)

cya

[gkour]

Hi,
I have build the Uirt with ruuds schematic and i am using Daniel's firmware and plugin.The thing is that my remote, a creative card size remote for the old line of infra cdroms is using the NEC protocol. I checked it with RCV 1.2 and an article on Elektor about remote ctrl codes. The code sends the string of bytes twice, then if you keep the button pressed it sends the same "repeat" code for all the keys. the plugin (and I guess the firmware too) send the apropriate code twice and then nothing.
I would like to ask Daniel if it would be too much trouble to mod the firmware to recognize the repeat code, or provide the firmware so I can have a shot at it. Otherwise I am very happy with it and greatfull to everybody working on it :smile:
Thanks

[Danijel_Pticar]

..
The code sends the string of bytes twice, then if you keep the button pressed it sends the same "repeat" code for all the keys. the plugin (and I guess the firmware too) send the apropriate code twice and then nothing.
..

What send ??
1) UIRT->GIRDER or
2) GIRDER->UIRT_IR->TV

1) I have disabled sending short codes to avoid interferencing with neon lights, etc..

2) Im doing all comunications at 9600 (except DEBUG mode).
Stop_codes arives with small pause after main_code while UIRT is sending main_code to girder at 9600bps, so it misses stop_code or catch only part.

If I switch all comunications to 57600 maby it can be done but it require modifications to plugin and firmware ...

Put repeat to 2 or more , that will give you same efect as stop code ...

bye

[Ron]

Please use separate thread for separate questions. The next off topic post will be deleted and the thread locked. ( i'm trying to keep things in order this way nothing personal )

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: RonB on 2002-03-17 17:40 ]</font>

[windtrader]

Richard,

Any update on the kits? I am going to build one and would rather join in rather than one off it.

Don

[oe1k]

No real update on kits: I haven't had time to make up a PCB layout and no-one has come forth with one yet. I'd love to make up a batch, but I don't have anything to make!
-Richard

[Luc]

I must have missed something or don't fully understand the problem.
Do you want a new PCB design for the existing schematic or a modified one.
I can design a PCB and deliver whatever format you require.
Can somebody tell me what you want?

[oe1k]

Ok, I guess I'm mostly just dreaming still. Looking at the few schematics available, I guess there isn't a full-featured UIRT 2.0 schematic yet?

What I've found: UIRT Hardware:
Ruud van Gessel - Original UIRT 1.0, in-circuit programming but none of the new features.
http://people.a2000.nl/rwvgesse/FixFrame.htm?projects.htm

Danijel Pticar - Various UIRT 1.0 schematics, modified from Ruud's design, has in-circuit programming but no new features (no non-serial power, PC wake-up, or extra inputs).
http://free-zg.hinet.hr/DPM/

Jon Rhees - One 5v powered, PC wake-up (power-button connect) design, without in-circuit programming.
http://www.geocities.com/jon_rhees/UIRT/

Ruud is also working on a PS2 connected UIRT (I'll call it UIRT PS2) with PS2 power and wake-up capabilities, which may or may not be in-circuit programmable.

Anyone still working on a UIRT Serial design with: (1) In-circuit programming, (2) non-serial power (external PSU or keyboard/internal PSU), (3) PC wake-up, and (4) extra input lines?

I guess we don't need a PCB design until we get a full-featured schematic (PS2, serial, or one of each).

What should I do? Wait for a finished wide-use design or make more of the UIRT 1.0 kits?

-Richard

[Wykat]

@Richard,

understand your confusion. I think the new UIRT PS2 design would be the best way to go since it doesn't need any wiring directly to the mainboard. Nevertheless it will require new software (driver) and there is also no schematic yet. I assume it will be impossible to use in-line programming with it.

Therefor the John Rhees UIRT version is presently the best alternative. It can take +5V from the WOL plug. Disadvantage is that we need 2 cables; one to the WOL and one to the serial port.

The main advantage from the original UIRT design is in line programming. Since I already own such a device I can always use it as a programmer for any other design :wink: .

So personally I would like to have a PCB based on the John Rhees design as it is available today and I can use the original UIRT for programming.

Wykat

[windtrader]

My vote is to go with a proven design. Since a newer design does not appear built and tested anyway, it seems pretty clear to go with the most proven current design. This includes the companion firmware to program the chip.

I need the device to support having a receiver in a separate room from the PC. What mods would be necessary to have the receiver LED on an extended wire?

On the transmitter end, I would like to have several transmitters so I can place the transmitter LED next to the component's ir receiver.

Does the current design or these requirements or can it be done with a small tweak?

I'm ready to order and can drum up a few others to make a run worthwhile.

[PGPfan@home]

I'm getting anxious for the developement of the PS/2 UIRT to complete.

Ruud, if you are listening I'd like to offer a full version of WindowsXP Professional -new in the box- as an incentive to finish developement on this.

That's 1 for the hardware, and another for the software/driver for Girder.

This is a serious offer. I hope the appropriate people are listening. If I was skilled as an EE or wrote code I'd love to help, but this is the best I can do.

Any takers?

-PGPfan
travelinman@monroe.net


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: PGPfan@home on 2002-03-28 08:52 ]</font>