UIRT2 IR frquency range

[Jas39]

Hi Luc
A similar question: Both Pioneer and Sony support an electrical wired remote protocol. In Sonys case it's S-link and in Pioneers it's simply called control. I believe both use the demodulated IR signal thus leading to the question: Would it be possible to add either a 0kHz mode (no carrier) or a separate pin with the un-modulated signal?

Regards
/Anders Stenkvist

[MikeSM]

Hi, I am thinking about building a UIRT2 transciever to use with girder, but I need to have the ability to send codes to my ReplayTV PVR, which has signals up the 56 Khz range (I know this because I had to swap a Niles IR reciever with a Xantech that had greater dynamic range). Can the old UIRT handle this also?

Thanks,
Mike

[Luc]

Mike,

receiving the 56KHz could work because the receiver is a complete decoder module and only outputs the IR codes independent from the carrier frequency.
But the current firmware only allows for transmission up to 40KHz :(

Luc.

[MikeSM]

But the current firmware only allows for transmission up to 40KHz

Ugh... And I thought this was the answer to my problems! :-) Do you know of another IR transciever that goes up that far that I can use with Girder?

Is it just a programming issue, or is it something that basically the hardware can't support?

Thanks,
Mike

[kari]

About receiving 56kHz signals: Although the signal frequency is irrelevant to the firmware in receive mode, the receiver modules are pre-tuned to a specific frequency. The 'normal' frequency is in the 36 to 40kHz range. A 38kHz module covers this range reasonably, but even 4kHz outside the center frequency, detection distance has dropped drastically. I don't think you could cover the entire 36 to 56kHz range with any single module. You could, however, probably use a 56kHz module in the UIRT (there is one in the TSOP17xx range), but then you would lose the ability to receive other frequencies.

As far as I know, the 'only' thing stopping the UIRT from transmitting at 56kHz is software. Note though that both the firmware and plugin would need to be modified, and the communication protocol would have to be modified.

-Kári.

[MikeSM]

Interesting. Prontos and the like can recieve the ReplayTV signal just fine for learning, and it seems to work through the xantech dinky-link sensors fine too. Do they use multiple sensors, or how do they get around this issue?

Is anyone working on a firmware and software change to enable this by any chance?

Thanks,
Mike

[Luc]

Both Pioneer and Sony support an electrical wired remote protocol. In Sonys case it's S-link and in Pioneers it's simply called control. I believe both use the demodulated IR signal thus leading to the question: Would it be possible to add either a 0kHz mode (no carrier) or a separate pin with the un-modulated signal?

I don't know the technical specifications of either system but if it's correct what you are saying then the easiest way to do it would be to use an IR receiver module like TSOP1738 and use the data out signal wich is demodulated.

Luc.

[Jas39]

That's exactly what I've done sofar but now I want to use the UIRT as a front end to a Dallas semi TINI a micro-controller and extend the protocol over TCP/IP. It's of course possible to use the normal IR led's but it could be beneficial to connect it directly knowing that it's always connected.

[Luc]

If I understand you correct you want to connect the UIRT led output signal to your devices.
This won't be possible with the current design as the led's have a modulated signal. You could add some electronics to demodulate the signal but the simplest would be to use a TSOP as demodulator ( I understand you don't prefer this but I don't see an easier method).

Luc.

[jon_rhees]

MikeSM,

The UIRT firmware could be modified to transmit at 56KHz (you would need a 10Mhz PIC), but you would still need to verify good *reception* of IR signals from your remote control (assuming you want to use it). This part you can verify with the current UIRT.

I use the UIRT to control my Dish6000 without any mods--the Dish uses a 56KHz modulation. It just doesn't have great range.

Jas,

The modification to have no modulation should be fairly easy...Are the protocols similar enough?

-Jon

[Jas39]

John,
it is the same prototcol without modulation at least for Pioneer.

Regards

/&&

[MikeSM]

The UIRT firmware could be modified to transmit at 56KHz (you would need a 10Mhz PIC), but you would still need to verify good *reception* of IR signals from your remote control (assuming you want to use it). This part you can verify with the current UIRT.


Jon, thanks much for this info. But at least as far as my application, it appears moot now. The reason is I was looking to use the netremote application ( http://www.webwingnut.org/NetRemote/), and use the UIRT2 with girder to pass the IR codes recieved from the client application through girder and then out through the UIRT2. But it appears that there is no way to relay an IR code through girder to accomplish this, which is quite a shame.

Ben's netremote is a great application, able to use Pronto color CCF's and send the commands through an 802.11 or other IP link, and it runs under windows as well. It is awesome for HTPC control when used with girder, but doesn't appear able to be used as a generic IR remote function because of the girder passthrough issue.

I haven't found a substitute for this. I have TV tuners in a couple of PC's at home, and would love to use a PC application to control the ReplayTV or other video equipment, plus use a PDA as a lower cost and higher functionality remote control using 802.11. This is a lot nicer because the 802.11 link is 2-way, and can allow for album and track info among other things to be displayed on the remote as well.

Thanks for the great work on the UIRT2 in any case. Nice design.

Thanks,
Mike

[Ron]

Actually, if the UIRT plugins support sending IR strings from an variable/register/payload this can be done. If you use the Internet Event plugin (TCP Server/Client) as the way to channel the event + eventstring over the internet it should be doable.

[MikeSM]

Actually, if the UIRT plugins support sending IR strings from an variable/register/payload this can be done. If you use the Internet Event plugin (TCP Server/Client) as the way to channel the event + eventstring over the internet it should be doable.

Interesting. Does the plug in have the ability to do this?

Thanks,
Mike

[AKsor]

:evil:

According to this tread It is possible to have the UIRT2 firmware modified to have a 57kHz modulation if we use a 10Mhz version of the PIC. that is no problem. But is anybody willing to take on the challenge of implememting it. :oops: I know I sound like a pain in the ass but I'm getting desperate to control my two sattelite receivers.

If ist easier to implement the no frequency modulation output then I would also be happy cause I can build my own 56kHz modulator.

Thanks

[izone]

about receiving both 36KHZ and 56KHz signals accurately. Why not use 2 IR receivers and 'OR' their outputs together?

[AKsor]

:D

This message is for Jon

Jon is the source code available for the UIRT2 firmware by any chance.
I would like to take a look at it and see if I can modify it to transmit 57kHz.

Laz

[AKsor]

The problem with oring the two together will cause problems as both receivers will pick up some of the signal but with different amplitudes.

I did not try it myself but you never know it may work.

My problem is with the transmission of the 56kHz signal not the reception as I use pronto imported codes instead of learning from remotes.

about receiving both 36KHZ and 56KHz signals accurately. Why not use 2 IR receivers and 'OR' their outputs together?

[AKsor]

Bump

[izone]

"The problem with oring the two together will cause problems as both receivers will pick up some of the signal but with different amplitudes. "

The outputs of the IR receivers is TTL, so they'd both be the same.

[Cybermaus]

And in fact, the output is TTL-OC (open collector) so simply connecting them without need for a separate logic-port will already OR them nicely, it could very well work for receiving. But AKsor is more interested in transmitting.

[brohebus]

I have a UIRT2 that I bought from Luc a couple of months ago. After some initial testing, I got busy and the hTPC fell by the wayside for a while. During that time I learner that the UIRT2 wasn't very friendly with 56kHz codes, such as the ones my Dish 301/Bell 3100 DSS receiver uses based on the dreaded '0048' in the pronto code. The other day, i finally sat down to try it out, fully expecting that I would be out of luck. After some initial false starts, it seems to be working fine. Notes below:

1. Cutting an pasting Pronto codes into the UIRT driver's IR Import window didn't work.

2. Using the learn feature with the original remote worked fine. I held the remote about 10-12" from the UIRT and used the learn feature.

My UIRT sits above the sat box, and has to fire through the front of the glass stereo cabinet, across the room, bounce off the wall and back through the glass again, so the emitter doesn't seem to be suffering either.

Here is an example learned code (for the number 2 key):

00361F0976351F090080280800000000000000000000000000

The original learned code from Pronto:

0000 0048 0001 0011 0017 0165 0017 00a3 0016 00a3 0017 00a3 0016 0062 0017 00a3 0016 0062 0017 00a3 0016 00a4 0017 00a3 0017 00a3 0016 00a3 0017 00a3 0016 00a3 0017 00a3 0016 00a4 0017 00a3 0017 0164

I have a full GML file available for anyone else out there with a DP 301/BEV 3100 who want to test -I rather curious to see if this is a fluke or a viable work-around.

-Dave

[AKsor]

I'm interested in your gml file I got a Bell 3100 and a 3700 I will try it!

Please PM me and I will provide you with email address

Laz

[AKsor]

Hey brohebus just noticed that you are from Ottawa too.

Go Sens Go

Laz

[brohebus]

AKsor,

You've got a PM.

Shouldnt' it be 'Don't Go Sens' in light of recent events? :-?

-Dave

[AKsor]

You are right Dave just bad choice of words!
But it looks more promising that they will stay!

Got to stay positive.

Laz

[AKsor]

:D

I' finnally got the Bell ExpressVu 3100 ird and 3700 ird to receive both 56kHz and 38kHz signals.

I connected a PNA4602 IR receiver module in parallel with the original
module and I'm happy to announce that it works.

Mind you this is kind of a messy way arround expecially seeing that the new USB version receives and transmits up to 60kHz.

I hope Jon will revise the firmware on the serial based pic to support the same features as there are a lot of serial based UIRT users out there and the cost is right.

Laz