Insteon Feature Requests

[vitello]

I'm starting two new Insteon threads to discuss what Insteon features people would like to see in Girder and to discuss problems and solutions. Ron, Rob, and Tim are doing a great job, but they only have so much time. So let's let them know what we would like supported, both as software features and for new Insteon hardware.

I'll start off with a request to allow selective device polling.

I have a remotelinc which is awake and listening to Insteon traffic only for a short period after a button is pushed. I get a lot of wasted Insteon traffic because the G5 Insteon plugin repeatedly tried to poll my remotelinc when it is asleep.

Another reason for selective polling is if you want to temporarily stop using a device like a lamplinc. I had a lamplinc with a lamp attached that was part of several groups. My wife decided to redecorate and got rid of the lamp. So I removed the lamplinc, but the Insteon plugin complined. I didn't want to remove the links in Girder as I know my wife and the lamp will be back. I ended up putting the lamplinc back into the socket even though nothing is connected to it. I would have preferred to just tell Girder to stop polling this lamplinc so it wouldn't get
upset about it not responding.

I'll be posting other feature requests to this thread. I'd like to hear what others have to say.

Peter

[MR]

Thanks for starting the thread vitello!

Selective polling would be useful.

My #1 request is support for the EZIOxx devices from Simplehomenet. I have the 2x4, but I think the 8T and others are the same with just different IO configs. Here is the link to the CommandSets http://www.simplehomenet.com/Downloads/EZIOxx%20Command%20Set.pdf and the LinkRecord definitions http://www.simplehomenet.com/Downloads/EZIOxx%20Link%20Data%20Explained.pdf

One that I would think would be relatively easy is state and level Conditionals. I've figured out how to do what I need in LUA, but I honestly think not having the Conditionals makes full use of Girder a barrier to those who do not want to devote the time to figure it out how to write scripts. It just seems like a small thing to expand the usability base.

A low third is PLC control like setting up timers and location. I can do this with the Smarthome application, but it would be nice to have it all in one package.

[MR]

Hi.

Wondering what is a reasonable expectation to have on EZIO product support. I'm leaving the country for a few months in Mid April, and would like to be able to monitor things at home while I am gone. I realize Promixis needs to set their own priorities, but I thought I'd post in case one customer's input can make a difference. :)

Thanks,
MR

[quixote]

I agree with two of the above suggestions, but I no longer really care about the PLC. I've had it with that thing -- it crashes my computer and sometimes loses all of my devices. I'd like to see a second version of the Insteon plugin that will include functionality with the ISY99i and previous versions of the device. Universal devices has a beta version of a web SDK that would enable this.

[vitello]

I totally agree that a new Insteon plugin is needed. My PLC locks up as often as three times a day. I read recently that SmartHome is starting from scratch with a new PLC design which is in beta development. A web based interface with something like the ISY99i would be great also. I'm mostly concerned with stability and support (and the cost of any new hardware).

Peter

[grog]

I've also been very disappointed with the Insteon plugin because of the instability. I have my machine scheduled to reboot automatically every night which has helped a little bit but I still frequently need to go into Girder and reset things just to get it operational again. I've also had it lose all of my devices several times which is really annoying. I don't know if the issue is with the PLC, SDM, the plugin itself, or all three. It's a moot point though because regardless of where the problem lies the plugin is pretty much useless for me right now in its current state.

Therefore, I'm not interested in any new plugin features because I'm not going to spend any more time setting up all kinds of cool Insteon functions if I can't count on them working when I want them to. In my opinion the only thing they should be spending any time on in Insteon land is making the current plugin actually work reliably.

[davidsetton]

My biggest complaint about Insteon PLC is the fact that it conflicts with DirectX programs. Even the newest version of PowerDVD Ultra (required to play Blue-ray movies) relies on DirectX. This program crashes with the USB Powerlinc connected to my computer.

David

[quixote]

I totally agree that a new Insteon plugin is needed. My PLC locks up as often as three times a day. I read recently that SmartHome is starting from scratch with a new PLC design which is in beta development. A web based interface with something like the ISY99i would be great also.

I read that on the Smarthome forum as well. Hopefully this comes to pass soon and the plugin will not need to be modified too extensively in order to work with the new hardware.

The current PLC has been a problem since day one for me because of the directX conflict. I suspect that it's the root of most of my insteon pc-control woes. Also, I tried the other day to set it up again because I bought some more Insteon devices and my computer has been acting (even more) flakey since, crashing and telling me that there is a driver conflict.

I think that if Promixis is able to allot enough man-hours to build a new Insteon plugin, that they'll have to wait for the smoke to clear (litterally and figuratively hahaha!). Once the new PLC exists, if ever, then we may be able to sleep easy and not have to worry about whether or not the tropical fish will be in complete darkness all morning if you sleep in, or your whole house when you come home late from work.

Promixis did a great job on the plugin, but you can't build a Bentley out of dog-shit. Clearly it needs to be updated with a few tweeks and new features, but the question is when will be a good time to do that. It's a waste of time if the PLC still isn't reliable and may be replaced in the foreseeable future.

[Ron]

quixote, thank you. Could not have said it better myself. Sadly this is the case.

[MR]

Well, I must have won the lottery or something. I don't think I've had any problems with my PLC/SDM. Maybe I have a relatively newer device or maybe I'm just not smart enough to recognize the issues. I only have seven devices on my Insteon network as well. But once I get things set up, it seems to work flawlessly (is ZoomPlayer DirectX? I use that and Girder/DVDSpy/Insteon all the time and haven't had any problems.)

Unfortunately the tone of this thread sounds like the Insteon plugin is going to be taking a back seat for even longer. That is very unfortunate from my perspective. If I find I can't do what I want with Girder (opperate features of new devices for instance) I'm going to start looking elsewhere.

Thanks,
MR

[jonkjon]

YUP! I agree.....I downloaded the trial version of Girder and what you can do with that is so pitiful it isn't worth investigating. I posted several threads about whether or not the Insteon plugin was included in the trial version and never got a single response. Which leads to the second issue here....apparently, support is lacking. How in the world do they expect me to plunk down $150.00 to investigate whether Girder even works with Insteon or not? It's not likely to happen.
There are some equally versatile applications on the market that can do most of what Girder does for a fraction of the price. With the steep learning curve and amount of programming to get Girder to do what you want, you can nearly code your own development solution.
How can Promixis solve this dilemna? First, provide a fully functional evaluation version of their software. At the current pricing, this very valuable tool will likely go unnoticed by those that are just coming into HA...and that would be a shame.

[vitello]

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitello View Post
I totally agree that a new Insteon plugin is needed. My PLC locks up as often as three times a day. I read recently that SmartHome is starting from scratch with a new PLC design which is in beta development. A web based interface with something like the ISY99i would be great also.
I read that on the Smarthome forum as well. Hopefully this comes to pass soon and the plugin will not need to be modified too extensively in order to work with the new hardware.

The current PLC has been a problem since day one for me because of the directX conflict. I suspect that it's the root of most of my insteon pc-control woes. Also, I tried the other day to set it up again because I bought some more Insteon devices and my computer has been acting (even more) flakey since, crashing and telling me that there is a driver conflict.

I think that if Promixis is able to allot enough man-hours to build a new Insteon plugin, that they'll have to wait for the smoke to clear (litterally and figuratively hahaha!). Once the new PLC exists, if ever, then we may be able to sleep easy and not have to worry about whether or not the tropical fish will be in complete darkness all morning if you sleep in, or your whole house when you come home late from work.

Promixis did a great job on the plugin, but you can't build a Bentley out of dog-shit. Clearly it needs to be updated with a few tweeks and new features, but the question is when will be a good time to do that. It's a waste of time if the PLC still isn't reliable and may be replaced in the foreseeable future.

I have a concern that if all HA software groups wait until the smoke clears on Insteon development, then there will be no development. The small Insteon companies like Simplehomenet and Universal Devices seem to waiting for the software developers for their product interfaces. Individual users certainly won't get the attention a company like Promixis would get in getting features implimented and development pushed.

Wait and see may be fine for end users, but some high end HA developers need to get involved. Smarthome says that they are beta testing a new PLC.
I would hope that Ron would be interested and at least provide some feedback to Smarthome about what problems he has with the current Insteon interface and what he needs for Girder.

Peter

[Rob H]

Sorry jonkjon about the lack of responses lately - it depends on who is around and actually knows what the situation is. I don't deal with Insteon issues as I'm in the UK and Insteon just isn't available here unfortunately.

Tim and Ron have both been pretty busy lately so may not have been reading the forums as much as they'd have liked. This is not really an excuse, but it is an explanation.

Apologies for dropping the ball, but we're only human after all.

[Ron]

We really appreciate your concerns and suggestions. We are working as hard as we can on our products but as you no doubt know the breath of Girder and NetRemote is HUGE. I should do a source code line count for both products it might even surprise me. Anyway because of the breath and very diverse requests we get from our customers, it is hard to jump on every request. At the moment we are really focused on getting NetRemote stable and faster. Once that is done we can fully focus on Girder and it's plugins again.

As Rob said we are only Human :-)

[jonkjon]

I don't mean to sound so negative towards Girder. I guess it's mostly dissapointment. Girder appears to be a very powerful tool in the toolbox for progressing towards HA. However, with no full featured trial version, those that are looking at Girder are probably the "roll up your sleeves" type of HA enthusiast,Most HA folks are!, they don't get the chance to determine if Girder is the appropriate solution without making a substantial investment. While not exactly the same piece of software as Girder, Housebot and Automation Vista offer very full feature sets that can approximate much of what Girder can do. They both offer trial versions and include a growing number of plugins that you don't get charged for.
I came to Promixis looking for the Ipod touch remote capability. After an unsuccessful bout with the Girder Insteon plugin, i rolled up my sleeves and created similar functionality with the Ipod touch using Housebot ($69.95)...

[MR]

Hi JonKJon.

I saw your earlier posts and I didn't respond as I'm not sure if the situation has changed, but before Girder5 had a price tag, there were limited time (30days I think) licenses of both Girder5 and the Insteon plugin (two sepperate beta licences.) That allowed for full functionality for a limited time.

In fact I just checked the download section and under "Free Trial" I see Girder5 there and under "All Downloads" it shows:
Girder Insteon Plugin 1.4.3 Girder Insteon Plugin (30 day trial)

So I think you should be able to try before you buy, right?


On the other topic, I agree with Peter. If the Insteon plugin isn't getting focus because the Promixis team feels the customer base values Netremote improvements first, then fine. That doesn't represent my interests, but Promixis needs to consider it's entire customer base and I'll impatiently wait for my turn. If the situation is Promixis doesn't want to work on the plugin because the SDM or PLC isn't perfect, then I might start looking elsewhere as who knows when or if Smarhome will come out with a better solution and honestly the current PLC/SDM seems to work for me.

Thanks,
MR

[jonkjon]

Yes, i saw the 30 day trial of the Insteon plugin and downloaded that. But, the original question that i had about the plugin was "When i go to the device manager, it doesn't list my insteon usb plc as a device. What am i missing?". I then wondered if the thirty days for the plugin was only functional if i had the full version of Girder. Since i never received a reply, i figured that Insteon wasn't supported very well here, (for whatever reason), and i found another solution elsewhere.
Like you, i have had very good success with the Insteon PLC/SDM. I have over twenty Insteon devices and they all work very well. I don't care much for the software that Smarthome has to offer and that is when i discovered the other applications that i mentioned in my previous post.
I think that Girder is an awesome idea and has a great deal to offer in the long run. I have no doubt that the software will continue to grow.
Lastly, while i am sure that Net Remote is an item of concern for the developers, they didn't waste much time in touting the Insteon/ Ipod Touch functionality. That almost then becomes a marketing gimmick....After all, that is what led me here......

[Ron]

First off our trials are fully functional. All our products (the Insteon plugins and Girder) in trial mode have ALL features that the Whole Home Pro version has.

Secondly I now see why you are having trouble getting insteon to work. You downloaded the Girder 4 insteon plugin. which will work for Girder 5 but is not needed and has overwritten the Girder 5 version. Best thing to do is to uninstall both the plugin and reinstall Girder 5. That should get you going.

[vitello]

Ron,

I have a feeling that part of the trouble trial testers are having with the Insteon plugin is due to the documentation. The plugin is in the Component Manager now, but the documentation (which applies to G4) says to look in the Automation panel. Someone just doing a trial test wouldn't know where to look.

Peter

[jonkjon]

O.K. I tried the uninstall and reinstall and i still don't see any devices listed under Device Settings listed under Automation. Anything else i can try?

[Ron]

That's very true Peter.

jonkjon, you'll need to enable the insteon plugin and then add your devices to the Insteon Device Manger ( which in turn will export the devices to the Device Manager).

1 File->Settings->Plugins find insteon plugin and check the checkbox.

2 Script Reset

3 Goto Component Manager ->Lighting / Appiances/ Insteon

4. In the insteon configuration add your devices.

[jonkjon]

"Insteon" never shows up under the Lighting/ Appliances category inside of Component manager

[Ron]

Go to Settings -> Plugins. Scroll down to insteon, select it and take a screen shot, post that here.

[jonkjon]

Here is the screenshot ....i hope
4650

[Ron]

Good! Now lets check if the license manager is having issues. Can you take a screen shot of the license manager

File->Settings->General->License manager
if available click on the insteon product.

[jonkjon]

And here is the license page.....
4651

[Ron]

Looks like the License manager got confused.

Send an email to sales@promixis.com with your real name, to receive a trial key for the insteon plugin (note that normally this is not required, there is a bug that sometimes invalidates the trial license )

[jonkjon]

o.k.... It's sent. Thanks for your help with this....i've been really frustrated with trying to figure this out for about a week now.

[Mike C]

for those of you that want to try the Insteon PLM, see promixis. com http://www.promixis.com/forums/showthread.php?p=127826#post127826