Z-wave support advertised, but where is it ?

[bcoggs]

promixis web site lists z-wave as a supported, but I've downloaded Girder 5 looking for any specific mention and have not found it.

I can personally see how to do it; Leviton VRC0P Z-wave<>RS232 bridge, then use Girder's generic Serial plug-in; Then I write a macros to send commands.

But please someone tell me someone has worked on this and has a better way.

Cheers,
..c

[Ron]

I do apologize. The during some SEO work on our website the TBA (to be announced bit was mistakenly dropped from the ZWave support). I've fixed that.

However short of that you can program your own using the serial transport support yes. I'm afraid I cannot help with this effort at all as we have signed a confidentially agreement with ZWave w.r.t. their API.

[FearTheDentist]

Actually this doesn't look too bad. I'm attaching a copy of the RS232 protocol in case it doesn't come with the unit. I *think* the attached lua script should communicate with the device. If you haven't set up a serial device in G5 before, save Zwave.lua in ..G5\plugins\serial. Restart Girder then go file->settings->plugins (left pane)->serial. Select the "Leviton Zwave" device on the correct port, hit "OK change" and close. Restart the scripting engine (F11), then hit F7 to bring up the lua console and see if it generated any errors. We'll go from there.

[rjdv]

Ron:
sorry to be the bad guy asking, I know you get this question every few months, but any ETA on this?

I'm running a trial now, and would like to have Girder be the software to run my home automation, but I don't want to waste $100 if it won't do everything I need it to (HVAC RCS-TZ43 and Leviton light switches).


FearTheDentist / Ron:
I figured I'd try the LUA script and see if it would be compatible with my HA22, only to find out that the trial doesn't list the Serial-tab. Is this normal?

Thanks guys,

RJ

[rjdv]

duh!, enable the General Serial check mark in the Plugins section... the Tab's now there...

playing with the script now, thanks!

[Ron]

Sadly no ETA on ZWave. Sorry.

[bcoggs]

Although I have been a long-time Girder user, I had to abandon it in favor of Housebot due to current lack of Z-wave support. I may still use Girder for portions of my project (IR macros) as Housbot can communicate with Girder. I still think Girder is the more versatile of the two. And Girder's remote GUI developer is better also, IMHO.

Regarding Z-wave, my experience so far is that it is a mixed bag; Mainly because the Z-wave alliance doesn't ride tight enough herd on A) how well
a given vendor's z-wave implementation is documented; and B) how fully the various control classes are implemented; Depending on what you are doing, this can make it very rough for intermediate to advanced user. You can see a number of people pulling their hair out over on the zwaveworld forums.

[rjdv]

The only thing I really need it to do is
a) control my thermostat
b) control my light switches / dimmers.

Since I'm in NYC, distance etc. isn't an issue since my apartment is only 750 sq. ft.

I'll take a look at Housebot, the only other thing I'm really doing is controlling my shades, which go on a custom RF frequency (they work like a charm though)

[FearTheDentist]

did you have any luck with the .lua file? I'm thinking of picking up a few z-wave dimmers to tinker with...

[rjdv]

Not yet, but I am using the HA22, which I'm guessing isn't working quite the same as your transmitter.
The initial HouseBot trial was promising though.

[jwilson56]

Well there is a work around. I believe the Elk M1 supports Zwave and there is a great Elk plugin for Girder. I use this method to control my lights with X10 as the Elk has rules for lighting and motion detectors. The Elk is a great box to have for security as well as home automation.

[Tieske8]

I'm also eagerly awaiting the z-wave support as I'm really (really really really) fed-up with the unreliability of the x10 stuff (but also not ready to ditch Girder just because a lack of z-wave).

The solution: Can xPL support be added? to have a free z-wave solution soon...

Have a look at the z-wave solution from xPL (http://xplproject.org.uk/). Mal Lansell is now setting up his opensource z-wave project, the last update I got was that he had all the code working and the project is to go online mid March 2010. As Mal is one of the core developers of xPL, he'll be launching an update of his xPL z-wave connector, based upon the new opensource z-wave library as the first app using the library. Have a look at his announcement here (http://www.xplmonkey.com/zwave.html).

Connection to Girder; xPL is a fork of the xap project, in the early stages they split off. Xap is now nearly dead, haven't seen much activities there. xPL (which is a simpler form of xap) on the other hand is actively being developed.

As Girder already has a xap plugin, just copy that code, update it to xPL (should take no more than a couple of hours, it's that simple) and you have an xPL plugin that will be the first to take advantage of the added z-wave support by Mal.

In a later stage the support can be made native using the z-wave library.

I suspect the Girder xap plugin code is in Delphi/Pascal or C, otherwise I would offer to make the updates myself, but I'm more of a VB/Lua coder.

It also liberates you of any commitments on the z-wave legal side.

[Rob H]

I was wondering about Mal's code myself - sounds like a good idea to me.

[rjdv]

Cool, I'm definitely going to read up on it.

bedankt!

[AKsor]

Any News on when we can control our Schlage door locks trough Girder without having to invest into an ELK?

[jumbodogs]

Bump

I just got a zwave Tstat from radio shack. Is there anyway to use it with girder?

[jumbodogs]

I have heard the ELK zwave interface is not very good at all. So is there any chance Girder will be getting zwave?

[jwilson56]

Bump... can Promixis comment on this please

[Ron]

We sadly do not have any engineering time for this currently :(

[jwilson56]

Ron what is the xAP plugin written in and would you make it available for someone else to work on a possible solution?

[Ron]

xAP is c++/lua are you thinking of the a xAP - ZWave bridge?

[jwilson56]

Just looking at the possibilities.

[Tieske8]

Unfortunately my earlier posted option for adding xPL support still isn't available. The open zwave project (http://www.openzwave.com/) has still not released a first version, though Mal posted a message (http://www.xplmonkey.com/index.html) that it shouldn't be long anymore.

The current xPL version (http://www.xplmonkey.com/zwave.html) still requires the ControlThink SDK (not free). But it could be a route to get it working. It shouldn't be hard to adapt code from xAP to xPL.

[jwilson56]

Well it will not help everyone but it looks like the new Leviton Zwave interface that is coming out will be supported by Elk. That looks the most promising for those that have an Elk system (which by the way is one of the best security/automation panels for DIYers). There is a very good Elk plugin for Girder so that is one of the better options for us.

[harleydude]

I have put together a quick plug-in that is currently send/receiving xPL messages. I am not sure where to head from here. Many of the links to download xPL applications appear to be dead. I did find xPLBallon and installed it. According to the docs, it will respond to log.basic messages, however I am not able to make it respond to messages I send.

Update: I downloaded xPLHAL and xPLTTS. I am able to send messages to xPLTTS and it works. So I know my message structure is good.

Tieske8,
What is that you are looking for in a plug-in for Girder?

[Ron]

I spent my the afternoon looking at the ZWave SDK and have put together something small that can turn on and off a light. It's very very early stages but it's a start I guess.

I'm using the ControlThink ThinkStick (not the SDK just the hardware), but the code is generic enough to work with other hardware as I get my hands on it.

ZWave's SDK is huge, there are a lot of different classes to use. Considering the time limits I would like to get an idea of what is most important to you guys.

Things that need to be done for a basic framework, in order of importance


Listing of all devices in controller
Basic Commands
Binary Switch get/set
Multi level Switch get/set
Raw Message sending
Hook into DM
Thermostat
allow for controller replicating

What ZWave controllers do you guys have?

[Tieske8]

What is that you are looking for in a plug-in for Girder?
Can I download it somewhere? I'll give it a try

[harleydude]

Tieske8,

I am going to create a new thread for this, we can discuss it there.

[Tieske8]

just for administrative purposes; xPL plugin discussion went here (http://www.promixis.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21059)

[jumbodogs]

What ZWave controllers do you guys have?

I just have Tstat for now but radio shack is selling the zwave door locks pretty cheap. I haven't picked up computer interface yet as I wanted to see what worked or will work with my Girder setup.

I have to say I am happy to see that it looks like Girder will be able to work with zwave. There seems to be some really cool items coming out using zwave.

[jumbodogs]

I picked up zwave lock from radio shack the other day for $70. I was just wondering how you were making on with the zwave Ron?

I haven't picked up a computer interface yet. I was going to wait to see what ends up being the best solution for use with Girder.

[Ron]

I think your best bet short term is the xpl plugin (http://www.promixis.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21059) making the ZWave plugin is not trivial. We're spreading our engineering time as best we can.

[Tieske8]

I haven't picked up a computer interface yet. I was going to wait to see what ends up being the best solution for use with Girder.
The ControlThink sdk (http://www.controlthink.com/zwavesdk.htm)(which is used by the xPL zwave app) isn't free, but the US version has a USB adapter included.

Small warning regarding the doorlock; xPL communicates using UDP broadcast and is not secure by nature. So before you're going to use a doorlock, be aware of the security risks.

[quixote]

Maybe someone with a background in programming can look into creating a Micasaverde Vera 2 plugin. Don't quote me on this, but I believe MiOS (the built-in OS on the device) uses LUUP, a form of LUA. I also think that you can control scenes and devices simply by navigating to a certain address on your network, for example:


http://192.168.0.248:3480/data_request?id=lu_action&output_format=xml&serviceId=urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:HomeAutomationGateway1&action=RunScene&SceneNum=2checks

activates scene #2 at my place since my Vera's address is 192.168.0.248.
I have a Vera 2, but I've never been a skilled programmer. Is there anyone paying attention to this thread that might want to give it a shot?


Note: LuaUPnP is also an option.

[jwilson56]

Ron FYI

Girder is getting pretty beat up these days by many home automation users for having no Zwave support. Many that have used Girder for HA have now been going into other applications. Personally I am holding off on Zwave till we decide if we are moving but can understand their frustration.

[Ron]

I understand the frustration I wish we had ZWave support already as well. Sadly currently I do not have an ETA for that support. I'll re-evaluate priorities and see what we can do.

[AKsor]

Due to the slow integration of new technologies I have given up on Girder and I have been a long time user ever since the begining if girder.

I have to say that I jumped ship and have no plans on returning anytime soon as my requirements have been met by another HA product.

Thanks again guys its been fun :(

[jwilson56]

Sadly what Girder and Netremote lack (no Android/ iPhone support and Zwave) that other HA apps have is also frustrating in that they don't come close to being as good as Netremote and Girder (poor or no support for J River Media Center and not being nearly as fast on the client side at refreshes). They all have their pros and cons. I have been doing this a long time and have not found any home automation package that does it completely. I will stand by Netremote and Girder for the time being even though I 'won' a Elve Pro license. It is just not mature enough yet as they also have limited resources. Homeseer doesn't support JRMC and I am not impressed with HSTouch (although it does support tablets and smartphones). It is a crying shame that the economy has hurt so many companies in this field. I can appreciate the dilemma Promixis has with their limited resources. We can only hope they find time to add what many of us want.

[AKsor]

As for the economy we have no one but ourselves to blame! we sold out and outsourced all of our jobs to China. just so we can buy cheaply made products that last no more than a few months then we throw it in the garbage and we do it all over again while bitchin how shity it was.

While China is taking our money and uses it to buy up our country at a discounted price. They buy our resources and our properties and soon we will all have to learn chinese and beg for food, thanks to corporate greed and all of us who rather buy cheap chinese shit than pay for quality made at home products.

Oh I almost forgot they are also arming themselves for a hostile takeover if we shall oposse them.

It's not a question if it's just a matter of time!!!

That's my rant for now !!!

Over and out

[Ron]

For what it is worth we actually make our hardware here in the US! No outsourcing of software development or hardware development.

We have some great developments in the pipe that have to be done before ZWave can be implemented. It's just not as fast as I had hoped due to various factors including the economy but also a lot of work on the PEAC side of things. So it's not all bad.

We do really appreciate all our customers and I am pained when I read posts like yours.

[AKsor]

Don't get me wrong I was just ranting about the economy, it has nothing to do with Promixis and in no way did I refer that Promixis is contributing to the demise of the economy.

It was just my frustration that was building up over the months of personal experience and watching my company outsource my job and my peers!

I also feel the pain in having to abandon Girder and jump ship but as of right now I have no choice as I invested some hard earned cash in multiple Z-Wave devices that I was unable to control.

I will still visit the forum and see how things shape up but for now I'm out

[Ron]

No hard feelings. I'm sure you'll be back :)

[jumbodogs]

AKsor what product are you using now? I have been looking into premise to see if I can run that along with my Girder setup so i can add in some zwave things.

[Ron]

please take that into PM's thank you.

[quixote]

To be truthful, I have not been using Girder lately either, but mostly because I am in a transitional period; I made a switch over from Insteon to ZWave and I'm in the process of making various other changes.

Secondly, I'm waiting for certain improvements to be completed that have already been making excellent progress, such as HTLuke's "Andre" for Android, as well as Tiesk's UPnP plugin with Mike C's implementation of it in the device manager.

As long as the community continues to develop for Girder and help each other out, Girder will remain as an excellent option for home automation.
I would like to see more regular improvements, though, and I hope that you can find some time to keep your fans happy, Ron!
Long live Girder!

[noodleNT]

So currently there is no support for products like the ThinkStick?