Development of a stand alone aplication for UIRT2

[Robin]

Er, Why ?!

This has already been done, in fact one of the biggest complaints about the UIRT is that EVERYBODY seems to have made a variant and it became too confusing for people to know what worked with what ... The UIRT2 came about to create a standard module that had sufficient I/O capability that we didn't need all of these other variants.

Jon Rhees has already kindly donated the protocols used by his UIRT hex (in it's own post on this forum), so it really isn't difficult to write an app that will talk to it ... and I personally use ICProg with a JDM programmer to get round ICSP anyway.

[Robin]

Look, I don't mean to be rude ... but ...

The UIRT2 is the result of MANY man hours of work from MANY different people who have all been working for free to help others IR control their PC's.

The UIRT as hardware has not be copyrighted, as it is a collection of readily available parts this would probably prove hard / expensive to police.

However, the UIRT's on-board software BELONGS to either Jon Rhees or Danijel Pticar (both adapted from Ties Bos' original UIR), depending on who's firmware you're using. They do not charge for their work, however, it still remains THEIR work. Neither are open-source, they are both property of their respective authors.

Many people have now seen my HTPC, coupled with a hybrid UIRT, and suggest that I build them to order ... there is obviously a market, why not make some money.

Well ... my own morals tell me that it's WRONG to make money off of someone elses efforts. I'll happily sell working UIRT's for cost + beer money for my time (and point them in Girder's direction), but I'd be ashamed to show my face here knowing I'd stolen someone elses product to make myself richer.

I strongly recommend that you re-think your approach ... if you want to make a product for commercial sale, either LICENCE the firmware (I'm sure the authors would be only too pleased of a little beer money) or develop your own ! :P

[Robin]

OK ... I re-read your initial comment and I think I over-reacted slightly.

I've met too many people trying to make money out of other people's efforts and it really annoys me (as you probably gathered), but if you have an agreement with Jon then I approve all the way. After all he definitely deserves something for the phenomenal contributions he has made.

I apologise for jumping on you like that ! :roll: In fact I'm that bored at the moment I may even have a crack at that standalone application for you ...

I'm also interested in home-automation ... do you have any information (or know where I can learn more) about passing data through the electrical wiring in the home (like X-10 but at component level) ?

[Robin]

One of the nice things about using Darlington arrays (as per Luc's UIRT2 schematic) is that it can handle a significantly larger current than you would normally control with a PIC. If you then use this Darlington to control a TRIAC or relay then you could switch ANY mains operated appliance (as long as it doesn't require an additional IR commands).

So table lamps, fans, fish-tanks, etc. could all be turned on / off by the UIRT, although it doesn't make any use of the IR transmission capabilities. BUT, it's still substantially cheaper than trying to get an IR controlled plug socket, or X10 module to do the same thing (if a little dangerous for the amateur due to mains voltages).

Jons UIRT protocol is a clearly defined serial protocol, so I don't think it will be too hard to create something that can teach the UIRT new events to watch for ... I'll let you know how I get on !

[Robin]

Luc, first off ... re-reading my earlier outburst, I see that I have inadvertently a) tarred you with the same brush, b) not credited you for all of the much valued work you have contributed.

In both cases I apologise !

Having visited your site quite a few times now, I consider your efforts (and pricing) to be exactly what the spirit of this project was about. I've no problem with people recouping costs, and perhaps even a little more for their trouble.

What I could never condone is selling something which isn't yours purely to get rich quick ... I think Chavex needs to get Jons approval and THEN advertise, not the other way round !

[Robin]

It's been quite a while since I did electronics at Uni, but I thought the diode was for protection against reverse EMF ... if this is what is meant by "clamping diode" I've not heard the term before.

When you switch a relay there is a power surge in the opposite direction whilst the relay tries to remain in it's current state ... but you're right about the relay switching the lamp though.

[Robin]

Anything rated to carry your local mains voltage should do, but don't forget to check current ratings (a table lamp in the UK runs at 240-250v, 60W, which is basically just 1/4 Amp).

I've used an automotive relay in my PC's PSU ... I got sick of turning on the PC, then both monitors (dual head system), then the speakers / scanner / joystick (Force Feedback) so I rewired the PSU to only enable the output connector when the PC was on (not standby).

This trips a 12v automotive relay, which turns on a multi-socket power strip and all connected devices ... I now only have to press one power button (or any keyboard key / IR code) and the whole machine bursts into life !

[Luc]

My objective here is not to make money from others effort but rather help people who does't know how to solder a pcb or have trouble with other schemes. I just happen to have the tools for that as it is my area of work. I redesign the schematic because i was unable to find one to suit my pourposes and personal requirements. Now i see great potentialities for it (not just the pc control but home automation) and have implemented the required expansion connectors on my pcb for future expansion acessories i will design.

To be honest I don't see any major difference between this and my A version besides the power from the comm port, but I can't find any good reason for doing this as it created problems with the original UIRT. Besides you will need good power anyway to supply the external devices.

My design also has the connectors to control external appliances as described on my website and I know of several who already used these.
It can be used as a standalone unit, just needs a PC to program the 4 IR codes for their respective outputs.
People who can't solder can get one from me at "cost" price, I even got remarks that the price is to low :roll:

I have an agreement with Jon to supply pre-programmed PIC's for the assembled versions but I don't know what his reaction would be for this project, also your website looks very commercial and contradicts more or less some of your statements.

So I can't find any good reason for doing this and thus I have a feeling that this is something to commercialise and as Robin said taking advantage from the free work of others: Ruud, Jon, Danijel, myself and others.

Can't help if this sounds rude but it's the way I see it ....

Luc.

[Luc]

Mars,

there is not very much on "automation" but there's a description on how to connect a 12V relay to the extra outputs at: http://users.skynet.be/sky50985/options.htm

Of course care must be taken when switching devices connected to mains.

[Luc]

Robin,

no need for apologies: my post was not intented to "promote" my work or to explain that I never will become rich selling UIRT's, I didn't feel "attacked" by your post because I know that what I'm doing is correct.
I think I mentioned all others who worked on this and thus give credit to whom it deserves.....

Luc.

[Luc]

When using relays on the Uirt2 outputs you should take care that you don't overload the outputs.
I would suggest a relay wich needs 100mA or less to activate, this means a coil resistance of 120 ohms or higher for a 12VDC coil.
Use a 1N4007 diode for the clamping diode.

Luc.

[Marsupial]

Er... why would we use the UIRT without a computer?

I mean, if you receive the IR and send it to nothing, then what's the point.

You would need some device somewhere to get the commands, no?

[Marsupial]

I like the idea of stand alone application, but I **thinked** the UIRT and UIRT2 where never designed with that in mind. so maybe you'll have to totally reprogram it.

Now I wonder how you'll do home automation.

I mean, yes, turn on a lamp: you need some other devices than just the remote.
I guess the remote would be to request stuff from the lamp control. then you could have TV, VCR, others... all controlled by some devices, which are controlled by the unleashed uirt.

I haven't checked anything yet about automation, but I think I'd like to. I have read 2 or 3 times in here threads pointing to the X10 stuff, but never checked it.

What would be your automation stuff??

BTW: don't be ashame about your english, it sounds OK. (at least for me who speaks french)

[Marsupial]

Luc could you point me to the automation part of your page... I feel dumb but cannot find any of it, just schematics and part lists of UIRT2A and UIRT2B...

[Marsupial]

Ok, I get it: Passed over it several times :(

it's the clamping diode.
Basically that's to drive the relay and the relay would turn on/off the lamp, do I get it right.

(sorry about that, I'm a software guy trying out some hardware...)

I'll check that later, when I finally got time ennough to finish my UIRT2, still need time to process the PCB :(

Anyhow, thanks, Luc!

BTW: getting back to the main thread. If it would not have been Belgium/Canada transportations fees (plus the simple thrill of "do-it-yourself") I would have got those from Luc, knowing it is not a commercial thing. I thruly believe he is doing a great effort in helping others out, as of most on the girder community. I'd like it to stay that way. (there are other places for commercial ways... I have a thread about competitors...)

:)

[Marsupial]

Of course!

silly me.

any idea of what kind of relay should be good?

Maybe it can turn out easier to get a stand alone home automation device?

[chavex]

Hello to all,

- I'd like to know if exist any SW to program the UIRT2 with Jon Rhees firmware that doesn't need the glider. I mean, the UIRT2 can be used without a computer, so it makes sense to have a simple dedicated application to program it.
I saw a TestApp with LCD support and it does everything great but something similar for the common user that doen't know the protocol whould be great !

PS:
I'm desing a external UIRT2 PCB based on Lucs design but small in size that takes its power from serial port if you don't need the WOL fearture. And has connections for future LCD module addition. I will post more info on further development.

[chavex]

I have a small shop that produces pcbs and develops small electronic gadjets. http:\\www.gtronica.com (I'm from Portugal)
I was starting to develop a mains switch controled by the computer and did some searches on the net to know what exists in this area, then i found UIRT2.
It does what i want (control 4 output with serial port) and as the extra functionality of allow the control with any IR remote you already have.
My idea now is to develop a UIRT2 main pcb with expansion connectors where you can connect accessories, like the power control switches to light a lamp, control electrical windows, whatever you want... It's called home automation!
The computer here is only needed to program the correct IR commands. That is why i've asked for a stand alone application to program the UIRT2.

I think to sell the monted ICSP UIR2 (ready to program) or pre-programed with autorization from Jon Rhdees.


Now i've just finished my prototype PCB. You can see it in attachment.
The 4 red leds are to debug the output state. the white thing in the midle of the picture is the jumper to ICSP. WOL, IN0 and LCD extension connector are not solded. Power supply is taken from serial port.

[chavex]

Well ... my own morals tell me that it's WRONG to make money off of someone elses efforts. I'll happily sell working UIRT's for cost + beer money for my time (and point them in Girder's direction), but I'd be ashamed to show my face here knowing I'd stolen someone elses product to make myself richer.

Dear Robin,

My intentions were not correctly understood.
My objective here is not to make money from others effort but rather help people who does't know how to solder a pcb or have trouble with other schemes. I just happen to have the tools for that as it is my area of work. I redesign the schematic because i was unable to find one to suit my pourposes and personal requirements. Now i see great potentialities for it (not just the pc control but home automation) and have implemented the required expansion connectors on my pcb for future expansion acessories i will design.

I't is not my objective to hurt fealings, i'm here just asking for help and directions to follow.

Of course i will not sell the firmware. I might sell the chips pre-programmed if i have autorization from author and people who buy demends so.

(Sorry my English, i'm from Portugal.)

[chavex]

I'm also interested in home-automation ... do you have any information (or know where I can learn more) about passing data through the electrical wiring in the home (like X-10 but at component level) ?

I've read something about electric wiring single chip modem at www.microchip.com but can't remember references...
You have plenty X-10 information and protocols here http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana/ .




Jons UIRT protocol is a clearly defined serial protocol, so I don't think it will be too hard to create something that can teach the UIRT new events to watch for ... I'll let you know how I get on !

I'll be waiting for it !
Just remember to make it work with future UIRT2 implementations with more io lines.. (Ask GETGPIOCAPS)


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So I can't find any good reason for doing this and thus I have a feeling that this is something to commercialise and as Robin said taking advantage from the free work of others: Ruud, Jon, Danijel, myself and others.
Can't help if this sounds rude but it's the way I see it ....

Dear Luc,
I have already expressed my intentions in a previous post. I will share IO port pinout as soon as i have it complete so we can combine efforts if you 're interested.