Serial Port Plugin issues

[SteveV]

On 2001-05-24 14:37, mrijken wrote:
...so I have to enable the time-out everytime when I start Girder.


Marc,

Have you tried Girder's "On Open Girder" event (select the desired command or Multigroup => right click => select On Open Girder). This event is run automatically when Girder opens the .gir file and should allow you to automate enabling the timer.

Regards -- Steve

[Mark F]

Sorry you are having troubles with this. I really need to add a "delete device" or "deactivate device" function. I will do this as soon as I can (hopefully, next weekend).

I also need to better document the usage of the device screen. You didn't really need to add a new device for your Quadscan Scaler. Instead, you could have pointed the default device at it by changing the COM port that the default device uses.

For now, the only way to remove a device (like the COM1 device) is to get rid of the registry key for the serial plugin (this removes all devices) and start over.

To do this you must manually edit the registry. WARNING: Editing the registry wrong can make your machine be unusable (re-insall time!).

If you want to do edit the registry exit Girder, use the start button and run ... menu item to execute regedit, find and remove the key "HKEY_CURRENT_USERSoftwareGirder3HardPluginsGeneric Serial Support" and restart Girder. There will be only one (default) device in the serial plugin (using COM1). Instead of creating a new device for your Quadscan Scaler, point the current (default) device at it by changing the COM port it uses.

Again, I'm sorry this isn't working the way you expected.

[Mark F]

SteveV,

I think Marc is talking about the timeout on the "receive message" dialog inside the serial plugin. :smile:

Marc,

That is a bug. The timeout variable was left out of the plugin's registry Get/Set routines by mistake. This bug is squashed in the version I plan to release this weekend.

[Mark F]

What I was suggesting is to reset your serial plugin to the initial state by removing all the saved data in the registry. Then, the next time you use use the plugin, do not add a new device but change the default device to use the port the Quadscan is attached to (COM2). This should leave you with only one RS-232 device being controlled by the serial plugin and should free up the other com port(s).

What are the settings you are using to talk to the Quadscan using Hyperterminal? Could you send me the connection file that you use? Do you happen to know if the Quadscan programming manual is on-line? I'm very interested in the type of handshaking it supports as I believe that is the problem.

Thanks.

[Mark F]

After looking at the Quadscan manual and exchanging E-Mails, I have sent Rick an early copy of the Serial plugin I'm releasing this week-end. It is only "an early copy" because I haven't let it continuously run more than 7 hours on my test system at home. Hopefully, some of the new features I've added to this early copy will help with Rick's problem.

For completeness, the Quadscan needs binary data terminated with a carriage return (0x0d). It supports a "one wire" (TX plus ground) interface so no handshaking is available. What a PAIN! :smile:

_________________
Mark F

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark F on 2001-05-26 00:10 ]</font>

[Mark F]

Hi Chris.

This could be a lot of things. Since HyperTerminal doesn't work in this set up, let's try some simple things first. :smile:

Manufacturers make claims about default settings that are sometimes not true.

Have you inspected the jumpers inside the Quadscan (JP3) to make sure it is ready to talk RS-232?

Have you checked or set the device id? This is the number used as the last digit of the Activation Command.

What type of cable connection are you using between the COM port and the Quadscan? Do you know if it is wired like the cable in figure 5 of the Quadscan user's manual?

[Mark F]

Standards are for the OTHER guy to follow. :smile: I hope the cable is the problem.

[Mark F]

Shoot! :sad:

I'm sure you have already done this but I have to ask ...

Is the serial plugin device screen set up for the right com port? (it comes out of the .ini file with "No Port" set)

While that screen is up, please validate the handshaking (none), baud rate (9600), parity (none), word size (8) and stop bits (1).

If all this checks out, please try Hyperterminal on the same port with the same settings talking to the Quadscan. Can you control the Quadscan with Hyperterminal? Does the break-out box light up?

[Mark F]

I am using hex codes, with delays. I am acting on faith that the delay is implemented correctly with Girder serial plug-in v2. Maybe there's some problem there. I'll try the multi-group method.
That is always a possibility. I did a timing test of the intra-character delay on my Win '98 system but who knows.

Sorry. :sad:

[Mark F]

Chris,

I use the Win32 Sleep function for intra-character delays. This is an Operating System function which is processor speed independant.

Is there any chance you could get the source for WinQuad? Or at least a part of it? I'd like to look at the way they set up the COM port and make sure I haven't overlooked something.

Thanks.

[Mark F]

Rick,

I need a huge favor. :smile:

Any chance you could try out the V2 serial plugin with your QScan? If Chris can't get it to work, I have no confirmation that it works (at all) with a QScan. I don't own one of these.

In return for this favor, you'll receive the next three versions of the serial plugin for free!!!! (OK, it's always free but I had to offer SOMETHING besides a big "Thank you") :smile:

[Mark F]

Chris,

Any thing that works with your cable and the QScan would be appriciated. :smile:

Can you zip it and attach it to an E-Mail for me? If so, use the address on the E-Mail button at the bottom of this post.

Thanks.

[Mark F]

Got it.

Unfortunately it doesn't include the port set-up nor access code. RATS!

[Mark F]

chris,

I think I found a problem in the V2 plugin. I'll test it a bit more before sending it to you. Probably this weekend.

[Mark F]

It has been a couple of weeks, sorry. I'll have the "bug fix" out to some testers as soon as I can. I want to verify it before releasing it to the general population.

Thanks.

[Mark F]

GREAT!!!!!

I had good news from Frank on the multi-char trigger problem so I think I'm almost ready to release another vesion. I hope Ron gets back on-line soon.

All of this stemed from adding a feature (intra-character timeouts) without testing in multiple environments. I added a "valid" flag and, via a "copy/paste" error, was checking a different "valid" flag. The result was the intra-char timeout worked only if you also had "modem events" enabled. DOH!

I need to re-build as version 2.1 (instead of 2.0.1) and will send it to Ron. He will make it available to the general population when he can get back on-line.

Thanks for your patience. :smile:

[Mark F]

Chris,

Thanks for the "heads-up". I'll take a look at the scenerios you mentioned and fix anything I can.

EDIT: Just so I understand, in 2), you are redefining the current command from being a serial port command to a keyboard command, right? Thanks.
_________________
Mark F

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mark F on 2001-07-10 01:06 ]</font>

[Mark F]

Rick,

I just sent you the latest serial plugin (2.1) for your pleasure(?). :smile:

[Mark F]

Chris,

I think I understand now. I believe this is a case of "pilot error". :smile:

You are trying to send a serial command based on receiving a specific key press. As you found, to do this, you add a new command, choose the serial plugin, define the data to send and press apply. Next you learn the hot-key and, at this point, you are done!

When you use the keyboard tab, you are defining a keyboard COMMAND. This is the keystroke (or keystrokes) that will be sent to the targeted window when the hot-key is pressed. You DON'T want to use the keyboard tab in this case because you want to execute a serial command, not a keyboard command.

The behavior you described earlier is defining/assigning a serial command and then using the keyboard plugin to redefine the command as a keyboard command. The serial plugin's dialog box reacts to the redefinition by acting like this is a new command (the data field gets reset to the default string "Place Command Text Here").

Does this make sense?

[Mark F]

Ron has talked about a UI re-design for version 4.x but this is slated for well after his current internship completes. In the mean time, don't beat yourself up. No one (except maybe Ron) was born with the knowledge of how this UI works. :wink:

Have you had occurances of 1) (more than 1 com port being held by the plugin) lately? Or was this a transient thing?

[mrijken]

Mark,

A great feature is to enable time-out of the serial input. But this setting won't be saved in the registry, so I have to enable the time-out everytime when I start Girder.

Marc

[rickd]

Firstly how do I stop the Serial port plugin grabbing all the serial ports and causing my IRMAN to not be enabled on startup. Currently I have to go into settings and disable the serial port plugin and then enable the IRMAN and then reactivate the serial port plugin which reports it cannot grap Com1.

Next issue is that I am having problems getting this to work reliably with my Quadscan Scaler.

The Scaler requires the following code stream to activate it....QSRON Control C <cr>

It also requires a 10ms dealy between each character so I have stup a multigroup and send individual characters of this string with a windows wait command between them of 15 sec.

Question is should I enter the commands in Hex code, ASCII or just standard characters.

Once activated commands streams work 50% of the time. It seems to work fine from Hyperterminal though.

Any ideas?

[rickd]

ok I have got this working with my quadscan seemed the carriage return had to be upper case version for init string and flow control needed to be selected.

Must say it is very cool being able to press one input on my pronto and having the rs232 command set aspect ratio, select the input on Quad and my receiver all with one IR command.

Thanks Mark great job now it my projectors turn,

One more thing I still have the start up issue how do I get around the Serial plug in steeling my com1 port which has the IRMAN on it.

Rick
Rick

[rickd]

Sorry Mark re the changing serial ports are you saying switch my IRMAN to Comport 2?

Rick

[rickd]

Mark what tool do you suggest for looking at the serial port from my Girder machine from another machine I seem to be having problems with things working for a time then going haywire so I want to look at what is coming out in Hex, also the way I am send ing characters is to setup a multigroup and send one character at a time with a 10ms delay between.

eg if I send the following;

QSRON control C <CR> Asc II version
0x81 delay 0x82 delay 0x81 delay 0x etc
of course Control C is 03 in Asc II or hex

I send it as single hex codes one at a time ....

Also should I actually enter the command string in hex AscII or straight form the keyboard,

I seem to be having trouble initialising the Quadscan from within Girder though I can do it fine in Hyperterminal?

Any ideas.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rickd on 2001-05-25 00:09 ]</font>

[rickd]

Thanks Mark

Here is marks response for Quadscan owners like me or first time uses to see the format for character entry format in the command string.
I now have this working 100%

"You will need to use hex codes and check the box (on the transmit
message dialog) for "Translate (Hex->Bin)". Also, leave the <cr> off
of each string and check the box "Add terminator" with a value of 0d in
the field next to it.

For example, the activation command:

(ASCII) Q S R O N 3 <CR>
(dec) 81 83 82 79 78 03 13
(hex) 51 53 52 4f 4e 03 0d

The string is: 5153524f4e03
The carriage return will be added by the serial plugin.

Another command from the manual:

"Output Aspect"->16:9 bottom
(dec) 26 06 13
(hex) 1a 06 0d

The string is: 1a06
The carriage return will be added by the serial plugin.

Sorry all the numbers are in hex but that is the number system I think
in. :smile: The Windows calculator accessory program (start / programs /
accessories / calculator), in "scientific" mode (view / scientific),
can translate dec->hex for you. Press the dec radio button, input the
decimal number, press the hex radio button, done.

Let me know how this works out.

Thanks,

Mark"

[rickd]

Check the manual for wiring I made one up the same as discribed in the manual it works fine.

Rick

[rickd]

I wired it based on the manual from scratch no breakout box nothing it worked first time once I figured out how to send an init string from Hyperterm.

Note you need to send the init string before anything works also you need to set echo in Hyperterm. So in hyperterm you would type QSRON and then press control A (if address 0, control B if 1 control C if 3 and so on...) and then return. Than you can press Control G and controlE then return to select source slect command SVideo A input.... then try control G and ControlD <CR> to select another input.

Then your in business....if you donot send the init string correctly (ie check your address and check your internal jumper setting) nothing will ever happen.

For the wiring I used a piece of Cat 5 and DB9 male and female as per diagram in the manual.
Rick

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rickd on 2001-06-06 23:30 ]</font>

[rickd]

Yes but you need to go into the Advanced settings and set echo to on. Do you get a connected status at the bottom.

Note the cabling is not fancy it is just TX and ground to quad and RTS and CTS are jumpered, it should be straight forward to wire it and it will work. If you use a break out box you need straight thru cables if you use a null modem cable you will get your wires crossed. I would flag the breakout box and wire your own cable as per manual.

[rickd]

Cpete whats your email again I will send you my file which works for me. I am still using the serial plugin version one have not got around to testing version two as my system is down while my Cassablancca is upgraded.

I use address 3 so setup yours up for that...I still can't help but think you are not initialising the Quad from the plugin or Hyperterm. Without init nothing happens.

What you could do is init it using Winquad sending QSRON and then use hyperterm or the serial plugin to send a source change command if this command (0705 in hex) works then you know you are not doing something right from the init string in Girder.

This would prove it one way or another. I also have my Barco projector working too so it seems something is not right here. If your cable works with WinQuad then all it can be is the init string in Serial plugin.

You are putting the Hex codes into the enter string here portion are you not? I know this stumped me for a while I thought it wanted ASCII also select convert Hex to binary option in setup.

Also try sending one character at a time with a delay of 15ms between characters. This means setting up a multigroup to send the init string like this:

Delay 15ms
send Q in hex cannot remember code see manual
delay
send S
delay
Send R
delay
Send O
delay
Send N
delay
Send addr 03 Hex in my case
delay
0d hex for <CR>

note all the above characters need to be hex codes.

[rickd]

Cpete you are in luck I have a Barco 808 the Rs232 commands are the same as the 1208 and the protocol is a bitch but I have it working. It required checksums headers and and an offset byte and the like.

I have included two commands in the file I sent you for Barco too namely the input 5 select command. This will also turn the projector on. I have the standby command there too. I want to add a register and if statement to know the state of power to the projector so you can turn it on and off depending on source. ie if you select CD after VCR then it will turn it off.

I have written down all the other RS232 commands but have not put them into Girder yet. The main commands to use are input select and power and maybe contrast brightness.

You should have my GIR file by now so let me know how you go.

Rick

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: rickd on 2001-06-19 05:43 ]</font>

[rickd]

ok guy's if I get time I will try it tonite...

Rick

[rickd]

Sorry guy's I have not been able to test it my system is down due to Cass II upgrade and I have taken the opportunity to rip everything apart and restack my gear to fit my new htpc into my equipment cabinet and rewire things to suit.

I hope to be up again in a week.

Cheers Rick

[rickd]

Hey guy's great news I am back online now all my gear is up so will look to move to the new version soon, I guess it will mean I can remove my one character at a time with manual dealy setup....looking to automate my Cass II now....which is fully RS232 controlable. Need to get my head around keeping state in Girder so any help appreciated...

Rick

[cpete]

I'm having trouble getting this to work with my QuadScan. First of all, let me say that this is the first time I've used Girder. So there may be something basic I'm not understanding. I've downloaded Girder 3.0.22, the serial plug-in v2.0 and the QuadScan device support. I've followed instructions and I've gotten to a point where I've defined the QuadScan device and have created strings of hex values for commands. I'm testing the commands manually by selecting "test command". I get no action at all from my QuadScan. Girder indicates the string gets sent to com1, but I have no way to determine if that actually happens. I've sent the QuadScan the initialization string and some other commands with no results.

As a test, I've also tried to control it manually with Hyper Terminal as suggested in this thread, but I can't seem to get it to send strings either. I've swapped serial cables and am configured for com1.

This whole process looks like it should work. I eventially want to control the QuadScan via Girder with my Pronto emulating an Airboard keyboard. But I haven't gotten there yet.

Thanks, Chris

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cpete on 2001-06-04 16:26 ]</font>

[cpete]

Mark,

It just occured to me that I should probably be using a null modem cable. I'll check on this and the wiring spec's first. Will try tonight and let you know the results.

Chris

[cpete]

Rickd,

Yes that seems to be my problem after looking at the wiring diagram. Silly me, I just assumed it would use a standard serial or null modem cable.

Thanks, Chris

[cpete]

OK, I have a serial breakout box now and it looks like Girder is not sending anything out on the serial port when I press "test command", even though it says it did. I also opened up the QuadScan box and verified the jumpers were set to receive RS-232 commands. It was.

I know the com port works. I also tested it with the same cable, com port and Pronto Edit. I see traffic on my breakout box in this case. I believe I've set the jumpers right on the breakout box to simulate the QuadScan wiring.

It sure seems like I have everything installed correctly, yet nothing seems to happen. Any suggestions?

Chris

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: cpete on 2001-06-06 06:00 ]</font>

[cpete]

Mark,

Thanks for your help. Yes, I have verified that the serial driver is set to com1, no handshaking, no parity, baud rate 9600, word size 8, stop bits 1.

I can't get HyperTerminal to work with these settings either. Perhaps I should focus my energies there? My settings for HyperTerminal are: Connection (direct to com1), 9600, data bits (8), parity (none), stop bits (1), flow control (none). I'm not sure what to set the terminal type to. Right now I have it set to Emulation (Auto Detect), Telnet Terminal (ANSI). Under ascii setup, I have echo typed characters (enabled) and delay per keystroke set to 15 ms. The only choice for terminal type are (Auto Detect, ANSI, minitel, TTY, Viewdata, VT100, VT52). I've tried them all. I get the same symptom - keystrokes do not echo and I see no activity on the breakout box.

Today I will review my jumpering of my breakout box with a friend. It's been many years since I played with one, so maybe I've screwed something up.

Thanks again,

Chris

[cpete]

After reviewing my wiring with the breakout box, I'm not convinced I did it right. I'll play around with it some more tonight with help from a friend.

Rick,

Do you remember any details on the cable wiring? Did you start with a DB-9 straight through and build it from scratch based on the diagram, or did you start with a typical modem cable and pass data and ground? Also, do you remember the specifics on your HyperTerminal settings (ie. terminal type)?

Thanks, Chris

[cpete]

Rick,

I did check the internal jumper last night and it is set to rs-232. I've also checked the address and it is 0, which I've been using in my command strings. I have been sending the init string, before other commands. I'm using your .ini and command file, so everything seems in order. Is there any feedback at all from the QuadScan display when a correct sequence is detected? For example, when the init string is sent, does the QuadScan display change?

When you run HyperTerminal, do characters you type in, echo back to the display? They don't for me.

Thanks for the other hints, I will try them tonight. It must be the cabling....

Chris

[cpete]

Yes, I went into advanced settings and turned echo on.

I will build the cable tonight and post back. Thanks again for the help.

Chris

[cpete]

I built the cable as documented in the QuadScan manual. No joy! I get the exact same symptom as before. The cable is wired on the computer side 1+4+6,7+8, 5 (ground) going to 1 on the QuadScan side and 3 going to 3 on the QuadScan side - exactly as documented in the manual.

HyperTerminal shows that I'm connected, but it won't echo characters and doesn't seem to control the QuadScan. I get the same symptom with Girder. I tell it to "test command" and nothing happens. Girder says that it sent it.

The com port works on my computer since it is the port I program my Pronto with. I'm baffled :sad:

Chris

[cpete]

I had a friend double check my wiring and I wired it exactly mirror image backwards.

Chris

[cpete]

OK, bottom line is this is not working for me and I am pretty sure everything is set up up correctly. See this thread in AVScience - http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/001144.html

I contacted Focus Enhancements and got a program from them called WinQuad. With this program I am able to control the QuadScan with my custom-built cable. I still can't get the Girder serial plugin to work and I still can't get Hyperterminal to work. There is a known bug in HyperTerminal and I received a "private" version from Focus Enhancements that solves the "echo" problem. It doesn't work either, even after following their instructions - to a tee.

When I say "doesn't work", what I mean is that the QuadScan doesn't respond. However, I'm convinced that the serial plugin is sending data out the com port. Girder claims that the command is sent, plus I have seen the Transmit Data light on my breakout box flicker when I send a command. Unfortunately, I don't have a way of seeing which characters get sent and if the delay is correct.

In regards to HyperTerminal, I'm not convinced the proper control characters are being sent. Rickd claims that Control A sends a 0, Control B sends a 1, etc. However, I have documentation from Focus Enhancements that shows that the "private" version uses Alt A for 0 and Alt B for 1, etc. When I use the "Alt" keys as documented, I get different graphics keys displayed than they show on the document. This makes me think I'm not sending the correct bytes from HyperTerminal. Regardless, I've tried both Control and Alt keys and neither work.

I have been using Girder to control "WinQuad" from my Airboard/Pronto. I have this part working fine. However, I would prefer to be using the serial plugin and not rely on this app. WinQuad doesn't have some of the controls I need anyway. Plus, it seems unreliable at times.

Chris

[cpete]

Rick,

My e-mail is "cpete@attglobal.net". Interesting you are using serial plugin v1. I had assumed you were using v2. I can try your files. I can also try address 3 instead of address 0. It seems to me that it is the init string too. I have tried to initialize with WinQuad and then send commands with Girder. That doesn't work! So it is a strange problem. It's unfortunate that there is no way to tell what state the QuadScan is in, until it starts working.

I am using hex codes, with delays. I am acting on faith that the delay is implemented correctly with Girder serial plug-in v2. Maybe there's some problem there. I'll try the multi-group method.

Unfortunately, my system wil be down for a week or two. While installing a new drive, I accidently snapped off a capacitor on my motherboard. I'm going to have to fix that first.

I'm interested in what you've done with your Barco since that is my next step too! I have a Barco 1208. What do you have?

Thanks, Chris

[cpete]

Mark,

How fast is your computer you tested with? I'm running a PIII-450 on W2K. I also have W98 with the same hardware, but have been testing W2K lately. How did you implement the delays? Are they hardcoded loops or do you adjust based on processor speed?

Chris

[cpete]

Mark,

Sounds good on the delay code. I did get some source code from FE for a command line interface. I now relize I haven't tried it (they gave me a lot of stuff). I don't have source for WinQuad. I asked, but the tech at FE didn't have the sourcecode either. Anyway, where do you want me to upload the source that I do have?

Chris

[cpete]

Mark,

Check your e-mail.

Chris

[cpete]

Great. My machine's back together again, so I can test it.

Chris

[cpete]

Mark,

The new serial plug-in works for me now. My QuadScan control through Girder seems to be pretty reliable now. Thanks again!!

Chris

[cpete]

Mark,

A day later and the plug-in is still working great. I love it!! Just wanted to mention a couple of things that might be problems with the driver. I'm not sure they are, so ignore if they turn out to be some other problem.

1) Sometimes other devices on my other serial port report that the port is in use. It seems that the serial driver might be hanging onto both ports. However, it might also be my setup. I have gone back and forth between com1 and com2 and there may be some remnants left over from a previous attempt. I'm investigating.

2) With Girder 3.0.22 and Serial plugIn 2.0.1, if I enter a command sequence of hex bytes under "Settings" of the Serial device tab, there is a situation where the command sequence gets overwritten. If I then go and assign a key through the keyboard plug-in v1.1 to that command, as soon as I press "apply", the command sequence in the serial plug-in for that command get's wiped out. If you do this sequence the other way around, it's fine. I don't know if this is a Girder bug or a Serial plug-in bug. But it is reproducable and a minor annoyance.

Thanks again for the update.

Chris

[cpete]

Just so I understand, in 2), you are redefining the current command from being a serial port command to a keyboard command, right? Thanks.

I don't know if "redefining" is the right word. "Mapping" seems like a more appropriate word for what I am doing. But the function I am attempting to do, which works, is to send a sequence through the serial port when a hot-key is pressed. I then have my Pronto send the hot-key via an Airboard keyboard emulation.

For each command, I assign a keystroke under the keyboard tab and "Learn Event". I also go into the serial tab and assign a sequence to send. If you assign the serial command first, then assigning the keystroke under the keyboard tab will wipe out the serial port entry for that command.

I'm not certain it actually wipes it out, but with this scenario, under the serial tab it says "Place Command Text Here", even when text has already been entered.

Chris

[cpete]

I understand what you're saying. I see now that I can "learn" a hotkey without leaving the serial tab. I must admit, I find the entire Girder UI a bit confusing, but I'm getting there...

Thanks, Chris