PDA-IR Support

[GrAfiX]

Are you guys planning on doing any PDA-IR??? I could really care less about the TCP/IP functions and RedRat doesn't seem like a viable solution since the PC is no where near where the components could get the signal...

I was so excited when I found out I could Skin the Pronto(top and bottom) buttons... And when I could use 24bit color I tested out both of those things and I could actually make a great looking skin... Then I came to the realization that I could never use this product without the IR support hopefully the PDA-IR from electricdogs or what ever...

So with that said are you going to add support for PDA-IR????

I sure hope so...

Thanks
Mike

[brohebus]

So with that said are you going to add support for PDA-IR????

PDAs use the IrDA protocol for IR. While they both use IR, the frequency and modulation of the IR signals is not compatible with the consumer IR used by AV devices. Some people have reported limited success getting IrDA to talk to Consumer IR, but usually the range is very limited (measured in inches, not feet) and it is a very hit or miss proposition. So unfortunately, this is more of a hardware issue than a software one that Ben can work around.

There are a couple of add-on IR transmitters that plug into the PDA's earphone jack - Kensington makes one, and one of the newer iPAQs features another, but these are proprietary designs making development for them difficult.

In the meantime, you can look at the Slink-e, RedRad, or UIRT (support coming soon) for IR support.

-Dave

edit: Maybe we can move this post to the FAQ section since it pops up fairly often.

[GrAfiX]

I can use pdawin Remote software and get about a 10' range with the built on and with http://www.myelectricdog.com/PDA-ir.htm I get around 30' of range or as far as I can test...

Also Total Remote Control software uses the built in IPAQ IR and works fine also...

Those two pieces of software have limitations of functionality that I like about netremote (24bit color and Large format CCF's)

[brohebus]

I can use pdawin Remote software and get about a 10' range with the built on and with http://www.myelectricdog.com/PDA-ir.htm I get around 30' of range or as far as I can test...

Also Total Remote Control software uses the built in IPAQ IR and works fine also...

Which model iPAQ are you using? I have a 3600 series and the built in IR works like crap. I also wasted several days of my life trying to get the IrDA port on my Asus motherboard to do anything useful...YMMV.

The Device IR debate has raged on in the AVSForum thread(s) before; what it comes down to, if I can paraphrase Ben, is that NetRemote is designed as a TCP/IP network-based remote control, rather than a Pronto emulator. Native IR would be nice, but there are obviously time/technical restraints that prevent it from becoming a reality for now.

-Dave

[GrAfiX]

I have a 3835 and the IR works pretty good... As far as the TCP/IP based remote... I see more use for the IR... since my PC even has IR so I could control that also I see the need for TCP/IP though to get Feeds to the IPAQ like Guides and news stuff like that...

What I really like about it is the 24bit color really and being able to do the Large CCF files is awsome.. I think there is a whole other market to grasp why not have the best of both worlds...

[brockgr]

If you just want IR - NetRemote is probably not for you. There are a bunch of IR remote controls for PPC. This one (http://www.pdawin.com/tvremote.html) supports Pronto files, and this one (http://www.griffintechnology.com/griffinmobile/totalremote/) has a cute IR extender based on the audio out - claims 100' range. I have used neither - so please evaluate them before sending them your cash.

However if you just go IR, you will only have a one-way experience. NetRemote's wireless solution gives you a fully interactive remote control. One day all remotes willbe interactive.

Cheers, Gavin

[GrAfiX]

I think you guys are missing my point... This product should do IR also.. I mean how many people do you know that can hook an RJ45 into their TV??? It's heading that way but not there yet... I also said it would be nice to be able to get a guide and that stuff thru the TCP/IP but as far as controling any devices like a remote it's not very good.

As far as those other products... They don't do what I want them to do like I said before... Total Remote can't do Discrete Codes so my family can work the thing... PDAwin is only 8bit color and to do anything with intense graphics... I'm a graphic designer and used to working with 16 million colors not 216...

I've looked into doing something like the RedRat but I have no place to put the transmitter without running a cable half way across my house... Plus I heard the delay of the wireless sucks... Where IR would take over those voids..

[brockgr]

GrAfiX,

I don't think IR in NetRemote will happen in the near future - but WickedEwok may correct me on that one. This has been requested by several people before.

Users are currrently using RedRat/Slinke/UIRT2/USB-UIRT to genreate teh IR needed. The wirelss IR does add a little delay - but for most of us here, it's acceptable. You can do the Wireless-IR conversion either using Girder or the IR Passthru server (no UIRT support yet).

Anyway, there is no harm in asking - and we can always do with more Graphic Designers in the NetRemore community - you may have seen my cheap and nasty interface design :lol:.

Cheers,

Gavin

[Mastiff]

I've looked into doing something like the RedRat but I have no place to put the transmitter without running a cable half way across my house...

That's why somebody invented IR extenders. And for the price of a Red Rat you can buy an UIRT (which NetRemote will support very soon) and several IR extenders. So you put the IR receiver/RF sender close to the UIRT and the RF receiver/IR blaster/sender in the room where your equipment is. You might want to have a look at my webpage, I do the opposite thing, with using IR remotes in several rooms in my house to control the HTPC in the cellar. 8)

[Ben S]

Plus I heard the delay of the wireless sucks...


The delay in starting up the PPC does kind of stink, which I'm trying to come up with ways to resolve, but the delay in hitting a button to IR send is nonexistent. You would never know that it's going from my pocket pc to the computer to the slinke to the emitter, except for the fact that I don't need to point the pocket pc at the device to be controlled.

Dave (brohebus) is exactly right in that NetRemote is primarily for TCP/IP control. I have experimented a few times with IR out directly from the unit, but each time found I had sunk 10 or so hours with nothing to show.

I have no problem including direct IR support either through IRDA (if someone has code or a library to do this that they can give me), or any of the CF cards that are available if they'll license the library. It's not important enough (to me) to sink the time required to get this working until some of the other high priority items are taken care of.

I do agree it would be great to have direct IR support, and it is my long term goal to include it.

[GrAfiX]

Thank you for all your replies and especially WickedEwok!!


WickedEwok (question)
You say if someone has a code library... Could this be the codes already in CCF Files??? Also as far as the CF Cards what about the electricdog one??? http://www.myelectricdog.com/PDA-ir.htm

They seem like a pretty small operation and wouldn't mind giving information you may need...

I'd love to help in anyway I'm gonna be making some 24bit skins for net remote and will probably go the girder route I just was hoping I could just do strait RF so I didn't have to invest in another 300-400 dollars worth of equipment... I'm a strugling graphic designer hehe...

Here is my company and site
http://studio.cbrokers.com

here is a link to the skin I started based on MS Media Center Edition.
It's just a start plus I decided to do it Large format since I found Tonto and Netremote I was making it for PDA Win but the dither just made it look like crap... You can see the green button and the Watch TV button work but don't go anywhere..

http://www.one18th.com/test2.ccf

[Ben S]

Wow. That .ccf looks -real- nice.

Regarding code library, I mean actual source code, not IR code libraries. With the current IR support, and the intent with direct IR would be to use the built in IR data in the ccf.

Awhile I contacted the pdawin folks to see if they wanted to license their technology. They never responded.

Today I contacted Cardonware (the Ultramote folks) about licensing/partnering. I'm hoping they will be more open to the idea, as it looks like they seem to be more technology versus software focused.

What I would expect would be that NetRemote would use Ultramote technology, but you'd need to register the library or dll with them.

The reason I'd prefer Ultramote is that they have support for the built in IR port, as well as their CF card.

Alternatively I will contact Electric Dog this evening.

[Mastiff]

Did you look at my website? I have invested about 200 dollars in IR stuff to get four IR zones and the UIRT2 (which is on it's way, my brother hasn't finished it yet). I'm sure you can do better, since you're probably close to a Radio Shack or something that has cheaper extenders. 8)

[GrAfiX]

WickedEwok
Awsome I hope you hear back some good news... If you need any help with the site or skins let me know... I know this one looks really like an MS rip that's the intent, I can do fully custom stuff I'd be more than happy to help. I was almost thinking about the buttons on a site I just finished www.casemods.com they would almost work in a skin..

Mastiff
I just checked out your site... Nice theater you have there! I'm working on my home theater also right now it's all framed in, the room is 15x30 and I will be putting a front projector in it with 2 levels of seating...

The problem I've had trying to use IR Extenders is they don't work very well like they have to be right on and my components aren't together by any means...

[Mastiff]

Thanks! But you must have tried the wrong brands, if I put one of mine in the middle of a room, it'll cover everything that's in there. Have a look at the X-10 PowerMid. I have heard good things about those, and you can buy them one and noe, so you won't have to buy a full set if you only need the sender. 8)

[Janus39]

Hello, I'm new on this forum and i'd also like Netremote support PDA-IR.
Concerning PDA-IR range there is a schematik on padawin site here:
http://www.pdawin.com/irtranceiver.html
and they announce a 15 meters (50 feet) range.
I've not yet a pda but I plan to buy one soon (a Dell Axim) to use as a universal remote an I'd like to use netremote for the support of the tonto custom ccf format (24 bit pistures an custom panel size).
So I hope you'll find a source library for PDA-IR.

Dom.

[iolaus]

Hey all,

Being a long-term Pronto user I was thrilled to start reading about some pocket PC remote solutions, especially NetRemote. I'd like to add myself to the list of those requesting direct IR support also. I can think of many incredibly cool uses for the TCP/IP communication of NetRemote and look forward to trying them all out. However, I am planning on purchasing an iPaq Hxxxx Pocket PC and would really like to be able to utilize it's consumer transmitter to send IR directly to devices without all the extra setup and/or equipment currently needed. From what I've seen, NetRemote is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition in so many areas that I'd love to use it in this way! I think that TCP/IP and Direct IR would be such an incredibly powerful combination that I could keep myself busy with the remote for a long long time!!!

Keep up the good work,
Ryan

[Ben S]

Hi Ryan, thanks for the nice comments.

I have done some development in the Direct IR space, and plan to continue this work once 0.99 is "out the door". I need to add the ability to "learn" for 1.0, and it would be nice to be able to transmit, but I won't hold 1.0 back if it can't do so.

Direct IR is back on my radar, though, so NetRemote will have it in the future.