Ron Bessems, need Generic X10 Plugin to pass H & D codes

[stevep]

Ron, I have a remote control and RF receiver from X10. The remotet provides IR and RF control for entertainment and home automation devices (remote is VK47A with a MR26A PC RF Receiver). All of the functions work fine except the house and device codes are not being passed to Girder. This is not a problem except for the home automation functions. The home automation functions are on several rocker switches that provide on/off control for different devices. Each switch issues an "A" house code and one device code from 1 - 16. Is there a way for the Generic X10 Plugin ( or the X10/ATI plugin) to pass these additional codes to Girder?

As the following log info shows, the Generic X10 Plugin (and the X10/ATI plugin) are missing the house codes and device codes and only passing the general on/off codes. I know the house and device codes are being sent by the receiver since another, non-Girder-based logger sees the codes.

For the following log, I exercised the on and off positions of the first two switches. The first entries are from the X10/ATI plugin and the next entries are from the Generic X10 plugin.

15:37:28.673 (000000000000050991799818) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_DN_On
15:37:29.354 (000000000000050994163013) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_UP_On
15:37:40.029 (000000000000051032388419) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_DN_Off
15:37:40.690 (000000000000051034752233) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_UP_Off
15:37:47.630 (000000000000051059604795) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_DN_On
15:37:48.291 (000000000000051061971907) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_UP_On
15:37:52.177 (000000000000051075854608) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_DN_Off
15:37:52.838 (000000000000051078217576) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 62 X10_UP_Off
15:38:44.312 (000000000000051262470550) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 On [Down] 1
15:38:44.983 (000000000000051264832452) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 On [Up] 1
15:38:48.017 (000000000000051275689000) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 Off [Down] 1
15:38:48.678 (000000000000051278054497) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 Off [Up] 1
15:38:51.242 (000000000000051287235846) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 On [Down] 1
15:38:51.903 (000000000000051289599563) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 On [Up] 1
15:38:53.735 (000000000000051296171960) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 Off [Down] 1
15:38:54.396 (000000000000051298534032) Tuesday, August 31, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 161 Off [Up] 1

I hope you or someone else can help. This would greatly enhance the capabilities of the remote.

Thanks,
Steve

p.s.: the attached file shows the codes I received from the home automation switches while using the other logger. Change the txt file extension to open the file in Excel.

[Ron]

I'll look into it. However it is not very high priority right now.

[stevep]

Thank you. I look forward to seeing what you find out and what you have in store for us in Girder 4.

Did someone else write the X10/ATI plugin? Either plugin would work for me if the house and device codes can pass through.

Steve

[Promixis]

Steve,

This seems like a problem with the x10 driver not working correctly. Can you reinstall the x10 software?

[stevep]

I'm checking with X10 about drivers.

It seems like the drivers are working since another logger program sees the complete event information. Has anyone you know of tried to use the house and device codes before? Has anyone logged the codes before?

Thanks,
Steve

[Promixis]

Steve,

The MR26A is a serial device that is different then the X10 remotes. I believe people are using Mark's Serial plugin. Search here.

[Mark F]

Wow, really? I didn't know the MR26A worked the same as the JR21A. If that is the case, the serial plugin and X10 MouseRemote.ini file should do what you want.

(I've been googling for the MR26A serial protocol and cannot find it)

[stevep]

The MR26A is a serial-based RF receiver that is used with X10's DVD and MP3 remotes. The receiver has been passing the house and device codes to the PC through the other logging software and I entered the house automation parts of the codes into the Excel file in my first post. To date, I have installed the serial plugin and tried it by itself, in combination with the generic X10 and X10/ATI plugins, and I've tried the X10 plugins without the serial plugin. All variations give the same results--no house or device codes. I have not tried the MouseRemote ini yet. Where should it be located so it can be used? What software actually uses the ini file (I assume Girder)?

As an interesting side note, the other logging software I have referred to has an option for setting up the Firecraker transmit and receive functions. The MR26A works with the receive test part of the Firecraker setup function. The tests return proper codes such as "A1 On" without the up/down designations. I tried the Firecraker plugin for Girder but found it is only for transmitting codes -- rats, foiled again.

Thank you very much Mike and Mark. I really appreciate your feedback.
Steve

[Ingo]

Steve,

I've been using this device for a few years now... Using Ron's Girder and Mark's serial plugin.
Receiving housecodes just doesn't seem to work. Everything else is fine.

Ingo

[stevep]

Ingo, thanks for the feedback. I'm trying Mark's idea of using the MouseRemote ini. I'll post results once I get the import function to work.

Mark, I found what I needed to do to activate the ini file. Unfortunately, when I import the ini and try to set COM1 as the device port identifier I get the error message "cannot open device with name COM1." Any idea how to overcome this problem?

Thanks,
Steve

Edit: I was able to get MouseRemote set to COM1 by removing the other ini files. No Girder events showed u,p but issuing commands on the remote control unit did cause LUA actions to be logged (unfortunately I don't know a LUA from a luau). The MR26A seems to be the same as the receiver part of the Firecracker transceiver.

[Mark F]

Ingo -

That is really interesting. Would you please correct any of the following parameters that conflict with what you use? Thanks. :)

Steve -

Could you try something for me? :) The FireCracker transmit protocol is defined as a 5 byte packet. Maybe this device generates the same size packets when it receives stuff????

Bring up the settings for the MouseRemote serial device:
press file/settings/plugins/generic serial support/settings
choose the MouseRemote from the device list
in the bottom right corner, press the receive button

In the Character event section (on the left half):
uncheck the script box
choose fixed length (5 characters in length)
check the enable receive timeout (30 ms)
check the Translate (bin->hex)


Now press buttons and toggle switches and post the log. (please annotate the spots where you pressed whatever and the expected X10 command from pressing whatever)

By the way, I liked the luau comment. :D

[Ingo]

Hi Mark,

I didn't set the receive timeout, otherwise my settings are the same (9600,8n1,hardware handshakin). Using 3.0.10.

Ingo

[Mark F]

Cool. :) Thanks.

[stevep]

Mark, interesting timing. I was creating another edit when your response came through. I was wondering if the Firecracker receive structure was like its transmit structure.

I tried your idea, but I've hit a snag. For some reason I cannot get COM1 assigned to the MouseRemote. I not only made sure the other ini files were set to No Port, I removed them from the settings list. I still get the error message with the followup message "The device cannot be opened. It is open already or it does not exist." The only plugins that are active are Generic Serial, Logging, and WinLUAEx. Any thoughts on how to move forward?

I also noted that the Firecracker interface was setup for 8-bit operation at 4800 baud while the Mouseremote is set for 7-bits at 1200 baud.

Thanks,
Steve

[Mark F]

The FireCracker (CM17A) is a send only solution. It has no receive component. The FireCracker actually uses the modem control lines (DTR/RTS) to accept commands, not the TX line. The baud rate et al for that device doesn't matter. ;) However, Ingo indicated the MR26A uses (9600,8n1) so if we don't get "good" results with the MouseRemote's (1200,7n1), you may need to change it.

I'm guessing that Windows is "recognizing" the MR26A as a serial mouse and installing a mouse driver to use it. This would use the Com port before Girder gets there. If this is true you need to go to Device Manager and disable "Serial Mouse".

[Ingo]

Mark,

no, Windows doesn't recognize it. At least not mine.

Steve,

did you install the program that probably came with your receiver? If yes, disable it.

Ingo

[stevep]

Getting the MouseRemote to work with COM1 is strange because it did work before (somewhat) when I was getting the Hawaian messages logged. I'll try the device disable and see what happens.

Steve

Edit: Com1 works. I just exited and restarted Girder.

Edit: here's the info I logged with serial set for MouseRemote. If you just saw the prior log forget it. I'm dense today and I hadn't changed the baud rate to 9600 as suggested. This log is starting to shed light on the information being received from the 26A:

MouseRemote data log: 9600 baud, 8 bits, hardware handshaking
Channel Up -- X10 code should be I13 ChannelUp (full sequence is - key down I13 ChannelUp, sequence 0 then key up I13 ChannelUp, sequence 1):
17:34:38.653 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AAEE40AD Pld1: D5AAEE40AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA EE 40 AD
17:34:38.763 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AAEE40AD Pld1: D5AAEE40AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA EE 40 AD
Channel down -- X10 code should be I13 ChannelDown (full sequence is - key down I13 ChannelDown, sequence 0 then key up I13 ChannelDown, sequence 1):
17:34:52.042 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AAEEC0AD Pld1: D5AAEEC0AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA EE C0 AD
17:34:52.153 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AAEEC0AD Pld1: D5AAEEC0AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA EE C0 AD
Stop -- X10 code should be I14 Stop (full sequence is - key down I14 Stop, sequence 0 then key up I14 Stop, sequence 1):
17:34:58.522 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AAEE70AD Pld1: D5AAEE70AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA EE 70 AD
17:34:58.632 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AAEE70AD Pld1: D5AAEE70AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA EE 70 AD
First home automation rocker switch On -- X10 code should be A1 On (full sequence is - key down: A1 On, sequence 0 then key up: A1 On, Sequence 1)
17:35:03.950 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6000AD Pld1: D5AA6000AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 00 AD
17:35:04.060 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6000AD Pld1: D5AA6000AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 00 AD
17:35:04.170 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6000AD Pld1: D5AA6000AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 00 AD
17:35:04.270 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6000AD Pld1: D5AA6000AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 00 AD
17:35:04.380 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6000AD Pld1: D5AA6000AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 00 AD
17:35:04.490 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6000AD Pld1: D5AA6000AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 00 AD
First home automation rocker switch Off -- X10 code should be A1 On (full sequence is - key down: A1 Off, sequence 0 then key up: A1 Off, Sequence 1)
17:35:08.466 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6020AD Pld1: D5AA6020AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 20 AD
17:35:08.566 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6020AD Pld1: D5AA6020AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 20 AD
17:35:08.676 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6020AD Pld1: D5AA6020AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 20 AD
17:35:08.787 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6020AD Pld1: D5AA6020AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 20 AD
17:35:08.887 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6020AD Pld1: D5AA6020AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 20 AD
17:35:08.997 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6020AD Pld1: D5AA6020AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 20 AD
Second home automation rocker switch On -- X10 code should be A2 On (full sequence is - key down: A2 On, sequence 0 then key up: A2 On, Sequence 1)
17:35:25.621 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6010AD Pld1: D5AA6010AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 10 AD
17:35:25.731 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6010AD Pld1: D5AA6010AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 10 AD
17:35:25.831 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6010AD Pld1: D5AA6010AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 10 AD
17:35:25.941 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6010AD Pld1: D5AA6010AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 10 AD
17:35:26.051 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6010AD Pld1: D5AA6010AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 10 AD
17:35:26.162 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6010AD Pld1: D5AA6010AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 10 AD
Second home automation rocker switch Off -- X10 code should be A2 On (full sequence is - key down: A2 On, sequence 0 then key up: A2 On, Sequence 1)
17:35:31.619 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6030AD Pld1: D5AA6030AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 30 AD
17:35:31.730 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6030AD Pld1: D5AA6030AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 30 AD
17:35:31.840 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6030AD Pld1: D5AA6030AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 30 AD
17:35:31.940 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6030AD Pld1: D5AA6030AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 30 AD
17:35:32.050 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6030AD Pld1: D5AA6030AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 30 AD
17:35:32.160 Thursday, September 02, 2004 EVENT: Dev: 140 D5AA6030AD Pld1: D5AA6030AD Pld2: Data Pld3: MouseRemote Pld4: COM1 Bin: D5 AA 60 30 AD

Final note: Girder is showing the hex codes in its status line at the bottom of the main Girder window. The activity indicator flashes multiple times for each command. Sounds like may be a simple script will be able to isolate the basic code?

[Promixis]

It looks like you are getting unique codes for each key. Can you attach these as events to a command?

[stevep]

Mike, Girder is able to learn an event for a command. This is a definite move forward.

Tthe problem now is that the remote issues multiple events with the same code for a single key down/up combination. Any idea on how to capture the first event and ignore the subsequent events until the key is released and ready to be pressed again? Another approach is to capture the sequence number that the remote is sending that differentiates the key down versus up event--is there a way to get Girder to see the sequence number as part of the event code?

Thanks,
Steve

[Promixis]

Yes,

Select you event, go to the top right hand corner of girder, enter an antirepeat value of 100-500 ms. or longer...

[stevep]

Thanks for the feedback. I did notice the antirepeat setting as a possible option.

There is one piece of information that is not being recognized by the software for some reason. I went back to my log from another program and there appears to be somesort of identifier that comes in from the RF receiver that indicates whether the remote key is in an Up, Down, or Repeat position. I tried a variety of different settings for the MouseRemote plugin to try to see this additional info. I changed the fixed length value from 5 to 6 then set events for variable length with and without the terminator character. All combinations gave the same results. Any thoughts on how to capture the additional information?

Thanks,
Steve

[Mark F]

I don't know where the additional information comes from unless the other logging software is adding it based on the timing of the events it is receiving. Hmmmm.

You could try:
On the device settings/receive message page, turn on the modem events. Maybe the MR26A does something to the DSR/CTS lines to indicate start/repeat/stop?

[stevep]

Mike, Mark, Ingo,

Thanks to all of you for your help!! The home automation keys now work well with Girder and map very well to SageTV using a gml from the Sage forum. I've learned a lot.

Mark, I tried your idea on the modem side but did not see any events. For now, I have set the antirepeat setting to mask the additional events that come in. It requires 600ms to mask the multiple home automation events and 200 ms to mask the key up repeated event for the other controls. This isn't totally ideal, but it works pretty well.

Ingo, the MouseRemote part of the Generic Serial Plugin works well in detecting X10 house and device codes. If you want specifics, just PM me and I'd be glad to explain what I've done.

Final Girder question: Is there a way to type in a hex code for an event instead of letting Girder automatically detect the event? The code from a house code key changes from one code to another if you hold the key down. Girder just detects the first code that comes in and misses the next code. If there is a way to type in a code, then I can add an additional event to a command to cause a repeat function to happen.

Final note, the VK47A is now capable of a vast range of commands. Adding the home automation keys added the equivalent of 16 individual functions on 4 rocker keys (Each key has two positions and there is a slide switch on the side to convert these keys from A1-A4 to A5-A8 switches.). The small remote can do more than any other remote of its size and more than a lot of larger remotes.

Again, thanks to all for your help.
Steve

[Mark F]

It requires 600ms to mask the multiple home automation events and 200 ms to mask the key up repeated event for the other controls. This isn't totally ideal, but it works pretty well.
An alternative would be to add a LUA character event script (inside the serial plugin) that would do this filtering for you. For example, it could check the time between incoming X10 data packets and if this is the same data as last time before triggering an event.

If you'd like to explore this, just let me know here and I'll write something for you. :)


Is there a way to type in a hex code for an event instead of letting Girder automatically detect the event?
Yes. Next to the learn event button is a drop down list box. Highlight the command to which you want to add another event string, choose Generic Serial Support from the drop down list and press the learn event button. Type the hex code into the dialog that opens and press OK.

[stevep]

Hey Mark, thanks for the offer to add scripting and for the info on how to type in discreet codes.

I have spent quite a bit of time with the remote logging and examiining the logic behind the key codes and the home automation functions. For the RF transmissions, the remote definitely uses the same codes as the Firecracker.

I have determined that the remote and receiver are not sending info that specifically identifies key down and up codes on any keys. On the non-home automation keys, the remote just sends the same code twice separated by 100 or 110 milliseconds (the other logging software I used evidently added the down/up designations). The home automation rocker switches act differently. A quick single press of a key causes the same code to be sent six times with each transmission separated by 100 or 110 ms. Hitting a key twice or multiple keys before all of the repeated codes have been sent does not alter the transmission. This means that when the home automation keys are used, the user has to wait over half a second before another function will work. Trying to do various types of skip aheads such as 10 second skips in a video in quick succession doesn't work all that great. A script will not change the timing. The home automation keys do work well with single action functions such as bringing up a list of recorded shows. because the time to hit another key I expect will always be greater than .5 sec.

The thing I was hoping to do by typing in the specific code for a key related to the way the rocker switches send codes when a key is held down. The code changes to a "bright" or "dim" code that could be used to repeat a function such as skip ahead or back. But alas, when a key is held down the code changes to a two part sequence with an on command first followed by a repeating bright or dim code (again, each code is repeated six times). This applies even when holding down the off position of the switch (the on command is sent followed by the dim command). A script could be written to handle the logic for proper use but this becomes complicated by the long time between code changes -- over half a second. It's probably not worth the effort at this time.

It seems odd that the remote has to send each home automation code so many times. Maybe ther were issues with the code getting through reliably to the home automation equipment.

Mark, thank you for your help. I may come back and ask for scripting help later, but for now I'll leave well enough alone. Thanks for your plugins. They have been a great addition to Girder.

If anyone else has gotten this far, the remote and RF receiver combination is available for $20 from Turtle Beach, the makers of my Santa Cruz sound card. The remote is now running my TV and VCR via the remote's IR transmitter and my PC-based digital video recorder via RF.

Steve

[Mark F]

Hey Mark, thanks for the offer to add scripting and for the info on how to type in discreet codes.
No problem.


I have spent quite a bit of time with the remote logging and examiining the logic behind the key codes and the home automation functions. For the RF transmissions, the remote definitely uses the same codes as the Firecracker.
This is good to know. I believe Ingo said this earlier but I can't see the whole thread. :)


I have determined that the remote and receiver are not sending info that specifically identifies key down and up codes on any keys. On the non-home automation keys, the remote just sends the same code twice separated by 100 or 110 milliseconds (the other logging software I used evidently added the down/up designations).
I was afraid of that.


The home automation rocker switches act differently. A quick single press of a key causes the same code to be sent six times with each transmission separated by 100 or 110 ms. Hitting a key twice or multiple keys before all of the repeated codes have been sent does not alter the transmission. This means that when the home automation keys are used, the user has to wait over half a second before another function will work.
This sucks.


Trying to do various types of skip aheads such as 10 second skips in a video in quick succession doesn't work all that great. A script will not change the timing. The home automation keys do work well with single action functions such as bringing up a list of recorded shows. because the time to hit another key I expect will always be greater than .5 sec.

I agree with your conclusions.


The thing I was hoping to do by typing in the specific code for a key related to the way the rocker switches send codes when a key is held down. The code changes to a "bright" or "dim" code that could be used to repeat a function such as skip ahead or back. But alas, when a key is held down the code changes to a two part sequence with an on command first followed by a repeating bright or dim code (again, each code is repeated six times). This applies even when holding down the off position of the switch (the on command is sent followed by the dim command). A script could be written to handle the logic for proper use but this becomes complicated by the long time between code changes -- over half a second. It's probably not worth the effort at this time.
This sucks.


If anyone else has gotten this far, the remote and RF receiver combination is available for $20 from Turtle Beach, the makers of my Santa Cruz sound card. The remote is now running my TV and VCR via the remote's IR transmitter and my PC-based digital video recorder via RF.
So it is cheap but has some drawbacks. Also good to know. :D

I'm just glad you have it working (somewhat).