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Beamer
November 26th, 2013, 12:31 PM
As per the title I am trying to send control+cursor right to NPVR. I have tried the <RIGHT_CTRL> but sadly without effect and for the moment have run out of ideas.

Can anyone advise if it is even possible for Girder to achieve this seemingly simple feat?

Ron
November 26th, 2013, 12:37 PM
UI Simulation is always a bit tricky. A few ideas:

1. Can you do that click in a different way? Keyboard shortcuts etc?

2. Try creating a 3 action macro. Action 1: Keyboard <CTRL_DOWN>, Action 2 Mouse click, Action 3 <CTRL_UP>

Try targetting foreground if that makes sense.

Beamer
November 26th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Thanks for the suggestions, this is actually a keyboard short cut, it is used to move the TV Guide forward 24 hrs. For the life of me I do not understand why Girder is having a problem. I have just tried HIP Software and it works off the bat but of course it is no match or replacement for Girder but it does work and that implies to me that Girder should be able to perform the same function. Unfortunately the developers of NPVR are unable offer a solution as the Ctrl+Arrow key is hard coded and not included in the Keyboard function file that can be edited.

Why can't Girder simply capture the key using a keyboard scan? The HIP software simply asked me to press the keys for the desired keyboard function and then showed ^{RIGHT}

Ron
November 26th, 2013, 01:29 PM
I misread your question. I was under the impression this was a mouse + control thing.

Try the keyboard action "*<RIGHT>" (without the quotes). Will the program always be in the foreground when this action runs? If so target the foreground, otherwise target the input box. Always worth trying command capture as well.

Ron
November 26th, 2013, 01:30 PM
Note updated above to be *<RIGHT> I had it wrong first time....

Beamer
November 26th, 2013, 01:35 PM
I figured you you intended the * but alas the asterisk is ignored and the function is just seen as Arrow Right :(

Ron
November 26th, 2013, 01:37 PM
Try force send keys checkbox.

Ron
November 26th, 2013, 01:39 PM
Try send to foreground.

If it still doesn't work please give Girder 6 a try. I believe it does better.

Beamer
November 26th, 2013, 01:39 PM
Still no dice the asterisk is ignored and I just get the Arrow Right

Beamer
November 26th, 2013, 01:42 PM
I will give Girder 6 a try tomorrow. Hopefully it will give me a trial period to test it?

Ron
November 26th, 2013, 01:42 PM
Absolutely, 30 days.

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 01:52 AM
Ron

Thanks for your help
Girder 6 fixes the problem.
Hell of an expensive bug fix though :(

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 03:40 AM
Sadly although Girder 6 fixes the key emulation bug it quite incapable of running the rest of my application. I have spent hours trying to get simple window conditional flow control working and came to the conclusion it is not possible, it does not exist. I am more than a little cross after reading a thread in the Girder 6 forum where you have confirmed that fact.

No disrespect intended but why are you selling a product that is not presently fit for purpose? How about fixing my present Girder 5.1 so that I can move on and not wait for Girder 6 to be finished?

I have been a girder user since Girder 3 and have purchased Girder 4, Girder 5 and Netremote but this time around feel like I am getting a raw deal. Seems to me that almost every remote application with the exception of Girder 5 can send Ctrl Right to an application and since Girder 5.1 appears to still be a current product, can we please get it fixed?

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 07:33 AM
I'm sorry Girder 6 doesn't have everything you need. Instead of getting angry you could request a feature for the missing parts of your application. I'm just human trying to make a product for my customers. I can make a good product as long as customers let me know what they need.

About the window conditional flow you've probably noticed that I tried to get that into yesterdays release, so if that is all that is missing for you, you won't need to wait long.


re: expensive bug fix. When did you buy Girder 5?

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 08:29 AM
IMHO Girder is chosen over free-be software mostly because it included windows conditional flow control and support for USBUIRT and other IR inputs. HIP software supports USBUIRT and many more input devices, works very well and is free! It does not however support any form of conditional testing which makes it a non starter for reliably automating HTPC control in my case. The point I am trying to make is that windows conditional flow control is IMHO a CORE function of Girder. If a new Girder product is released without it I may as well use the HIP software for free. I appreciate that one could write scripts etc but I think you will find that most of your customers will like me, want to be able to run their old Girder 5 GML application files albeit with slight modification. Having Girder 6 falling over on the first conditional test is unacceptable unless this is clearly pointed out in some sort of product compatibility guide.

In time I will almost certainly move on to Girder 6 but after spending some hours with it feel it is pretty much an early beta product. I can understand the thinking behind Girder 6 and like what I see but if conditional branching is not present today, what else is missing!

To sum up Girder 5.1 is the current product but it is flawed by being unable to emulate Ctrl+Right & Ctrl+Left. With the current state of development of Girder 6 it seems reasonable that I ask Promixis to consider fixing the key emulation. Clearly you know how to since it works fine in Girder 6.

My Girder 5 was purchased a good time ago and will not qualify for a free upgrade, cost of the upgrade aside, it is important to me to have a smooth change over.

I understand your other sentiments and do appreciate you taking the time to correspond.

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 08:38 AM
Thanks for your response. Conditional branching is definitely coming back, in fact it will be back in the next release. Which may even be today. If you have any experiences with Girder 6 that make it feel early beta please let me know. We value input a lot.

I'll see what is involved in Getting a fix back-ported to Girder 5.

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 11:34 AM
Thanks Ron

You assistance in fixing the Girder 5 issue will be much appreciated and will not effect me ultimately upgrading to Girder 6 as I am sure there are going to be many advantages in the future.

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 11:37 AM
I pulled the key sending code from Girder 6 to Girder 5. Since the code is slightly different and I do not want to break existing Girder 5 GMLs I've added an option to use the Girder 6 routines in Girder 5's Keyboard routines. Download Girder 5.1.1 from the downloads section.

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 12:29 PM
Ron

Firstly I want to thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time out of working on the new code.

The revised version sort of works. I say sort of because quite often *<RIGHT> and *<LEFT> is still being sent without the CTL. Is it possible that Girder is sending the command from both routines? As an example if I press the *<RIGHT>, ~50% of the time it will send the command correctly and move on 24 Hrs and ~50% move to the next time slot. If I use the keyboard it is 100% correctly received.

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 01:06 PM
Are you using foreground target or specifying a window?

I've slowed down key sending a bit. Unzip the attached file into your Girder installation directory.

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 01:30 PM
My application specifies a target window. Unfortunately the new Aux library did not fix the issue but I did try using match foreground and it works fine in this mode!

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 01:31 PM
Can you use foreground mode?

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 01:42 PM
Life is a compromise and I do not want to appear greedy with your time. Foreground operation will cause some small limitations but to be honest none that I cannot work around. If it is a big deal to fix for target window operation then I will wait for Girder 6 ;)

Ron thanks again for your support it really has been appreciated.

Have a nice thanks giving holiday.

Chris

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 01:51 PM
Life is definitely that.

Keyboard sending, if it's not to the foreground application, is always dicey as it's not an officially supported way of doing things. So it's basically a lot of trial and error to figure out what works, expecting that it will break with new windows versions or different applications. Do you have a link to the app you are using?

You are welcome. As I said we try to keep our customers happy as much as we can.

Enjoy your thanksgiving as well!

Beamer
November 27th, 2013, 02:08 PM
Quick update:

I re-programmed the target window even though it looked fine and it has changed something because it now works 100%. Presumably when I switched to Girder 6 Key mode it changed something and needed the target to be re-programmed!

The applications is NPVR, I believe you will find a lot of people interested in this application.

http://forums.gbpvr.com/index.php

No thanks giving here in the UK :(

Ron
November 27th, 2013, 02:51 PM
Well I'm glad to hear it's working now!

When I get a chance I'll look at the NPVR app.